Cam Ward

[Justafan]

1 hour ago, oldschool said:

 

Bro. Callahan wanted a HC job and said whatever coach would in that they could work with the incumbent QB. It was clear in camp last year Cally wasn't a levis fan.... putting the Levis decision on him is laughable.

What a crock of shit. If he didn't believe in Levis, he wouldn't have taken the job or just sat around silently as they "collaborated" and put together a roster that was entirely built around him. 

[OILERMAN]

Belichich coached 10 seasons without Brady. He had an overall losing record( 8 losing seasons) and 1 playoff win over that time frame. 

 

BB also coached a 4-13 team, 2 5-11 teams and a 6-10 team. 

 

The reason, he had no QB and little talent, those things are way more important than who the HC is

 

 

[scine09]

Mularkey was a terrible HC.

[OILERMAN]

1 minute ago, scine09 said:

Mularkey was a terrible HC.

 

He was saddled with some of the worst QBs a HC has had. 

 

Had he been the HC when they had Tannehill he would have had more success. 

 

Vrabel did worse with Mariota

[scine09]

1 minute ago, OILERMAN said:

 

He was saddled with some of the worst QBs a HC has had. 

 

Had he been the HC when they had Tannehill he would have had more success. 

 

Vrabel did worse with Mariota

More success than Vrabel?  No way.

[Justafan]

7 minutes ago, scine09 said:

Mularkey was a terrible HC.

Based on? Certainly not his record in Tennessee, especially given the talent he had to work with. I think it's easy to forget the turnaround this team had from Whisenhunt and Russ to Mularkey and Robinson. 

[scine09]

Just now, Justafan said:

Based on? Certainly not his record in Tennessee, especially given the talent he had to work with. I think it's easy to forget the turnaround this team had from Whisenhunt and Russ to Mularkey and Robinson. 

He had plenty of talent in Tennessee.  That 2017 season they played an incredibly easy schedule.  Robinson absolutely made the right move getting rid of him.  And he was also awful at his other stops.  Do you remember the disaster in Buffalo?  I won’t even get into the Jacksonville year because he didn’t have much to work with.  But nothing will ever be more symbolic of his coaching career than the 2004 season finale.  If you don’t remember it, look it up.  They just needed to win to have a chance to go to the playoffs, played the Steelers in Buffalo with the Steelers playing their backups including Brian St. Pierre at QB as they already had locked up the top seed in the AFC and lost.  

[Callidus]

3 hours ago, Justafan said:

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say here. I think people are overreacting to what I said and that's fine but I have concerns going back to last year on Callahan. Everyone takes issue with me expressing that what Kurt Warner was saying adds to my concerns that I already had but I don't think it's any more of an unreasonable position than to declare the offense is fine given what we know to this point. 

 

Let me just run down the arguments here because it feels like everyone is coming at this from a different angle. I was told in this thread, I don't remember who, that it wasn't fair to judge Callahan based on last year because of Levis but I fundamentally disagree with that statement. I think it's completely fair to judge him. He was part of the regime who made Levis the unquestioned starter and he was involved with the decisions to go get some of the people they went and paid and he was intimately tied to Ran and the decision to build around Levis. They saw what they had in preseason and he had a year worth of tape on Levis before he took the job.  

 

I also saw the argument that the offensive design was really good last year. That might be the case but I don't think it's unfair to point out the lack of success even with talent issues or to have some concerns about what Kurt Warner said when breaking down plays. That's not a condemnation but I think it's naive to just write it off while jumping on the assessments that you like. Besides, that's just one piece to a larger picture. I'm not condemning him based on that, just pointing out that it added to my concerns. If people have a serious issue with that, I think it says more about their biases than it does about what I actually said. 

 

I also think that people telling me they saw WRs running wide open last year is hilariously misplaced arrogance on the part of fans who think they know more than they actually do. Don't get me wrong, lots of smart fans here but fans are just that and it's always funny to me when they say things like "the offensive design was actually really good last year" without posting anything to actually support that assessment and expect everyone to just accept that as fact because THEY said it. That's not how this works. 

 

Oman does have a strong argument when he rightfully points out that coaches tend to look great when they have a great roster/qb and magically look bad when the roster/qb aren't on that level but I would also point out that many coaches have managed to consistently get players to outperform their talent level and while to be a playoff team you probably need elite talent to compete, plenty of teams win 6-8 games with mediocre talent. While it's incredibly hard to win a bunch of games in the NFL even with average talent, when teams go 3-13, it's hard to convince me that coaching wasn't a factor. Of course it was. Callahan's teams looked outcoached and outclassed against teams with 3rd string QBs and similar talent. The ST's units were historically bad for most of the season. They looked undisciplined in all phases of the game and were heavily penalized. There were a ton of signs there that the coaching wasn't great even beyond the roster. 

 

I have optimism for him and there are positive signs. I already listed several of the things I like about Callahan. I'm rooting for him and I hope that I'm wrong. I'll give you that he was set up for failure last year being a first time HC, first time playcaller, and with probably the worst QB situation in the league. I still don't think that excuses everything we witnessed though and I think it's completely justified to doubt him until we see something more. 

 

Just my two cents on it. 

He kinda had to make levis the unquestioned starter. He would have never been hired if he told them no way am I using that train wreck, also hard to tell what you got till you get your hands on it. 

[TheBukafax]

42 minutes ago, scine09 said:

Mularkey was a terrible HC.

It’s wild thinking back about how archaic that offense was lol

[nine]

1 minute ago, TheBukafax said:

It’s wild thinking back about how archaic that offense was lol

You mean "exotic smashmouth"?   

[TerryBoats]

41 minutes ago, scine09 said:

He had plenty of talent in Tennessee.  That 2017 season they played an incredibly easy schedule.  Robinson absolutely made the right move getting rid of him.  And he was also awful at his other stops.  Do you remember the disaster in Buffalo?  I won’t even get into the Jacksonville year because he didn’t have much to work with.  But nothing will ever be more symbolic of his coaching career than the 2004 season finale.  If you don’t remember it, look it up.  They just needed to win to have a chance to go to the playoffs, played the Steelers in Buffalo with the Steelers playing their backups including Brian St. Pierre at QB as they already had locked up the top seed in the AFC and lost.  

2017 was a very weak year in general.  With a good coaching staff, who knows what could have happened.  

[Justafan]

52 minutes ago, Callidus said:

He kinda had to make levis the unquestioned starter. He would have never been hired if he told them no way am I using that train wreck, also hard to tell what you got till you get your hands on it. 

I disagree with all of that. 

[Justafan]

1 hour ago, scine09 said:

He had plenty of talent in Tennessee.  That 2017 season they played an incredibly easy schedule.  Robinson absolutely made the right move getting rid of him.  And he was also awful at his other stops.  Do you remember the disaster in Buffalo?  I won’t even get into the Jacksonville year because he didn’t have much to work with.  But nothing will ever be more symbolic of his coaching career than the 2004 season finale.  If you don’t remember it, look it up.  They just needed to win to have a chance to go to the playoffs, played the Steelers in Buffalo with the Steelers playing their backups including Brian St. Pierre at QB as they already had locked up the top seed in the AFC and lost.  

Yeah, how many games did they win before he took over as HC?

 

And LOL at trying to go back to a game in 2004 to pretend like he was bad in TN. 

[NashvilleNinja]

34 minutes ago, nine said:

You mean "exotic smashmouth"?   

 

Neurotic trashgout.

 

Robotriscuit only coached 3 more seasons, as the Bills receivers coach in 2018 and then as the Jags RB coach in 2019 and 2020. He quit/retired after that.

 

We're now heading into the 8th season since the days of hurdling the weak and trampling the dead.

[Callidus]

Just now, Justafan said:

I disagree with all of that. 

Next tike you go into a job interview tell them you wont work with someone/something they just put a big investment into and think could be the changing point in their buissness without ever having worked with said person/tech before and let me know how it goes.