Gruden Stepping Down as Raiders Coach

[CaliTitan3518]

7 minutes ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

Do you not think he would not lose the locker room over the lip comment? Yes or no?

I don't think he would have. 

[MikeKeith2020]

1 minute ago, CaliTitan3518 said:

I don't think he would have. 

The real question is would a time traveling, psychic have been able to foretell such a precipitous fall? 

[rns90]

I really don't know why you guys keep on quoting that retard.

[titansfan]

The people that saw these emails and can't understand why Gruden no longer has a job are honestly kind of stupid, plain and simple. Its pretty cut and dry. No way can you continue coaching after it's revealed how you think about much of the population you work with.

[MikeKeith2020]

12 minutes ago, CreepingDeath said:

When Shaw was abruptly fired in 1999 after helping the Raiders go from 28th to 16th in points allowed in two seasons,

I’d do some weird shit for a defensive coordinator who could get us from 28th to 16 in points allowed. Maybe we can give him a call.

Edited October 12, 2021 by MikeKeith2020

[AJClown]

For Gruden to resign like that, something must be in those emails we have not seen yet.

Seems like this is something more than just pressure based cancel culture overreaction.

 

But Gruden’s behavior was not limited to 2011. Gruden exchanged emails with Allen and other men that included photos of women wearing only bikini bottoms, including one photo of two Washington team cheerleaders.

Gruden also criticized President Obama during his re-election campaign in 2012, as well as then-Vice President Joseph R. Biden, whom Gruden called a “nervous clueless *****.” He used similar words to describe Goodell and DeMaurice Smith, the executive director of the N.F.L. Players Association.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/11/sports/football/what-did-jon-gruden-say.html

 

He could run for office with an (R) by his name

[kgsTitan]

Gruden now leading Trump in Iowa and New Hampshire

[Mythos27]

1 hour ago, cenj said:

 

This is going to piss some people off...

 

First off, I don't care what happens to Gruden. He said all the things about all the people, and he was dumb enough to do it on work email. And lol @ the overly-sensitive white privilege comments -- people seriously need to explain to you why white people can't use historically painful racist slurs? 

 

But to piggy back on this tweet...I agree that Gruden doesn't make this comment unless he's super comfortable and feels in a safe space to do it. Which means all these other white guys say (and think shit just like this).

 

So people need to be aware that they are being manipulated. Cancel culture is being weaponized by other racist/shitty wealthy people for what's probably a personal grudge. 

 

And yet many of the people saying "fuck Gruden," and making big shows about how this behavior isn't acceptable today, are going to continue watching the NFL and supporting a league that: protects racist/misogynistic/homophobic owners, pressured teams to stop players kneeling during the anthem (and blackballed Kaepernick), uses military propaganda to cater to an often racist fanbase, lied for years about concussion dangers as many black players suffer immense physical and emotional trauma, etc., etc., etc.

 

So I do think people need to reflect a bit more before throwing stones. No, some of you may not send racist emails -- so pat yourselves on the back for that. But many of the owners, coaches, players have done what Gruden has done and worse, and you aren't gonna take a stand or decry their actions in any real way. You're going to keep watching and supporting the rest of the Grudens in hiding because at the end of the day, you want what you want -- to watch football. You don't really give a shit about what any of these guys do. 

 

So at least be honest about some of the hypocrisy, and maybe come off that moral high horse. 

But you're talking about the unknowable. Of course no one is going to take any "action" nothing else has happened that is actionable. You think the next person that says shit like Gruden won't get the same smoke? Unless you're suggesting that we all have the ability to know exactly what these people say behind closed doors and are choosing to ignore it so we can watch football, I don't see how you can call any of this hypocrisy. The insinuation that the people Gruden was communicating with possibly use similar language is well taken but unless and until we have actual actionable evidence that these guys have said these things and what they said, how we can hold them accountable without becoming the lynch mob we already get accused of being? Also, if you don't hold the moral high ground against a racist, misogynist, homophobe then who do you hold the moral high ground against?

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Mythos27

[Mythos27]

1 hour ago, Alcibiades said:

I don't support the owners or the league or whatever. I agree that many of them probably have similar beliefs. I have no way of knowing that, though, and thus no way of knowing which ones I should condemn as I've been condemning Gruden. When I watch the NFL, I'm cheering for my team, for the players, etc. What stand do you want me to take in this? Should I stop watching the NFL because it's possible (or likely) that some owners, coaches, players are also shitty people even though I don't know which ones (or even have full proof that they are at all)?

 

I know Goodell is using this to get rid of Gruden, but Gruden still said these things and still believes them. Show me that one of our players, coaches, owners does too, and I'll say the same things about them.

Bingo. I don't know if the guy that prepares my bowl at Chipotle held someone at gun point, just like I don't know if the owner of that franchise is a tax cheat. My going to that Chipotle isn't some display of hypocrisy because I have no real way of knowing any of that. It's a reach. 

[Mythos27]

1 hour ago, unauthorizedcinnamon said:

Jon Gruden will be the new poster child for the right.

Just watch.

Yup and then they'll wonder why everyone thinks they're racist or sympathize with racists. Whenever someone gets rightly crucified for being a xenophobe eventually the right takes them in like a stray cat and makes them a martyr. Happens every time. But oh no, how dare people insinuate they sympathize with racists. What a fucking joke. 

[MikeKeith2020]

7 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Unless you're suggesting that we all have the ability to know exactly what these people say behind closed

 

@charleytolar knows a guy 

 

[BudsOilers]

There’s no question that the NFL intentionally leaked these specific emails to get Gruden. All coming from an investigation of the Washington football team abusing and sexually harassing their female employees and cheerleaders. It’s kind of laughable that Gruden is the only one coming out of this when you know damn well that employees of the Redskins, Other teams, the NFL, and power brokers across business are most definitely implicated in the 650,000 email scan.

Hopefully there’s enough pressure on the NFL to actually release all of the emails and results of their investigation. They will fight it tooth and nail because I guarantee that there’s people involved that they don’t want to be thrown to the wolves.

 

All of this aside, these people are idiots for having emails out that are ridiculously offensive.

 

[JT2000]

3 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Most racists ARE Trump supporters. They're among his most vocal voting block and he values them enough to say that there are "good people on both sides" when one of them kills someone by running them over with a car. That doesn't mean that all or even most Trump supporters are and I said that explicitly. I didn't imply shit and was very purposeful with the words I used. If that hurt your feelings, tough.

 

Are there some racists on the other side? I'm sure there are but do they exist in near the numbers, have the same influence, or are nearly a loud? No. No the fuck they don't. They certainly don't have a sitting president obviously dog whistling to them before the entire world. You're not going to "same thing, both sides" me man. I'm not going to be gaslit. What hell would racists get from being Democrats anyways? Think they just can't wait to get black people economic justice, racial justice, and free healthcare? Give me a fucking break.

You start off with "Most racists are Trump supporters.."

 

Again, statistically that is the same as saying most racists are White, Male, Republican men. Most racists?  Also, it's nice to know that's the upper boundary on the number of racists.

 

Did it ever occur to you that racists have other priorities in life and they might belong to different parties or perhaps as likely, no party?

 

Racism is a much bigger problem than you make it and your focus seems to only focus on white vs. black racism, which is only part of the problem.

 

Think about your logic. 

 

What about other kinds of racism? I'm married to an Asian and I'm aware of racism that you probably aren't. I've been in other countries where racism is societal and they would laugh at us even having this discussion.

 

The reason I've responded to you is in hope that you'll rethink your stereotype because stereotypes are one of the ways all racism perpetuates.

 

 

[MikeKeith2020]

15 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

power brokers across business are most definitely implicated in the 650,000 email scan.

Hopefully there’s enough pressure on the NFL to actually release all of the emails and results of their investigation.

 

I’m very interested to see where it goes from here and where the next shoe will drop. It’s definitely not going to end with gruden, although this is going to drag out for a long time. 

[cenj]

I think a lot of people could use more honest reflection. I think there are many people swept up in the cancel culture, those that feel they are morally superior, that they are making brave stands, because they would never do these terrible things.

 

Here's a current scenario: right now, there are WFT fans who are condemning Gruden. They think he's a racist asshole, they think he deserves to be fired, and they feel morally superior.

 

These same fans are also buying tickets and merchandise and lining Snyder's pockets. They did the same for years when WFT were the Redskins. They'll keep doing so no matter what because they love football.

 

Oh that doesn't apply to you? You must not have noticed the NFL's tactics in hiding CTE. You also probably haven't noticed any other examples of these owners being racist and sexist. I've personally seen all sorts of fans rationalize terrible people when they are part of "their" team.

 

People are being manipulated by racist/sexist/homophobic people. People are going to keep giving money to those same shitty people and tell themselves there's nothing else to do. But there is. They could stop supporting these horrible owners. If Gruden deserves to be cancelled, then holy hell -- most of these owners certainly do to.

 

Of course, they're not going to do that. They'll continue with public protestations when it's easy and obvious, mocking racist boomers and congratulating each other on their wokeness. Maybe I'm just getting old, but a lot of it seems hollow and naive.

Edited October 12, 2021 by cenj