Gruden Stepping Down as Raiders Coach

[Mythos27]

21 minutes ago, JT2000 said:

You start off with "Most racists are Trump supporters.."

 

Again, statistically that is the same as saying most racists are White, Male, Republican men. Most racists?  Also, it's nice to know that's the upper boundary on the number of racists.

 

Did it ever occur to you that racists have other priorities in life and they might belong to different parties or perhaps as likely, no party?

 

Racism is a much bigger problem than you make it and your focus seems to only focus on white vs. black racism, which is only part of the problem.

 

Think about your logic. 

 

What about other kinds of racism? I'm married to an Asian and I'm aware of racism that you probably aren't. I've been in other countries where racism is societal and they would laugh at us even having this discussion.

 

The reason I've responded to you is in hope that you'll rethink your stereotype because stereotypes are one of the ways all racism perpetuates.

 

 

What stereotype are you talking about? I said what I said and I meant. You're the one trying to twist this by putting words in my mouth. Here in case I wasn't clear; most racists and bigots regardless of race or background overwhelmingly support Trump if they're engaged in politics at all. Stop looking for a technical way out of this. You either agree with my statement or disagree and if you disagree show me some evidence of tons of racist groups loudly supporting people like Bernie Sanders. I'm not accepting your false equivalency. 

[LongTimeFan]

4 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Because in society, black people have decided that it is an acceptable word to use amongst themselves. Obviously this extends to black rappers as they are still black people. There is an understanding that when black people use it there is no malice behind it. Now go ahead and argue that black people aren't allowed to determine that or the since black people say it white people should too.

That's the stupidest fucking reason there can be and you accept it because you are some fucking pussy.

 

Are you saying EVERY black person is fine with being called the n-word by any other black person?

 

If not, then your stance is bullshit.

[LongTimeFan]

1 minute ago, Mythos27 said:

What stereotype are you talking about? I said what I said and I meant. You're the one trying to twist this by putting words in my mouth. Here in case I wasn't clear; most racists and bigots regardless of race or background overwhelmingly support Trump if they're engaged in politics at all. Stop looking for a technical way out of this. You either agree with my statement or disagree and if you disagree show me some evidence of tons of racist groups loudly supporting people like Bernie Sanders. I'm not accepting your false equivalency. 

BLM

[oldschool]

53 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

There’s no question that the NFL intentionally leaked these specific emails to get Gruden. All coming from an investigation of the Washington football team abusing and sexually harassing their female employees and cheerleaders. It’s kind of laughable that Gruden is the only one coming out of this when you know damn well that employees of the Redskins, Other teams, the NFL, and power brokers across business are most definitely implicated in the 650,000 email scan.

Hopefully there’s enough pressure on the NFL to actually release all of the emails and results of their investigation. They will fight it tooth and nail because I guarantee that there’s people involved that they don’t want to be thrown to the wolves.

 

All of this aside, these people are idiots for having emails out that are ridiculously offensive.

 

 

Why? What's the rationale? Seems like the more likely story is the criminal investigation into the Washington head trainer led to discovery of some juicy emails that an investigator leaked to the NYT.

[Mythos27]

5 minutes ago, cenj said:

 

I think a lot of people could use more honest reflection. I think there are many people swept up in the cancel culture, those that feel they are morally superior, that they are making brave stands, because they would never do these terrible things.

 

Here's a current scenario: right now, there are WFT fans who are condemning Gruden. They think he's a racist asshole, they think he deserves to be fired, and they feel morally superior.

 

These same fans are also buying tickets and merchandise and lining Snyder's pockets. They did the same for years when WFT were the Redskins. They'll keep doing so no matter what because they love football.

 

Oh that doesn't apply to you? You must not have noticed the NFL's tactics in hiding CTE. You also probably haven't noticed any other examples of these owners being racist and sexist. I've personally seen all sorts of fans rationalize terrible people when they are part of "their" team.

 

People are being manipulated by racist/sexist/homophobic people. People are going to keep giving money to those same shitty people and tell themselves there's nothing else to do. But there is. They could stop supporting these horrible owners. If Gruden deserves to be cancelled, then holy hell -- most of these owners certainly do to.

 

Of course, they're not going to do that. They'll continue with public protestations when it's easy and obvious, mocking racist boomers and congratulating each other on their wokeness. Maybe I'm just getting old, but a lot of it seems hollow and naive.

You may think it's hollow and naive but the public outcry you're waving away is literally the only reason Gruden is out of a job. The NFL is a business and they recognize that known racists like Gruden are bad for business precisely because people like us will make a stink about it. The stench of being a racist or associating with one sticks with you in our society and that's a good thing IMO.  That's what the NFL is trying to avoid. No one actually thinks they have altruistic intentions but we'll take it because it's what we can get.

 

You may find it insufficient or convenient but the proof is in the pudding that it's at least effective in making public racism completely unacceptable. Either cancel culture is effective and worth complaining about it it's toothless and thus not worth complaining. Can't have it both ways. 

 

So what's your solution? All NFL fans should boycott the NFL until all the bigots are rooted out or they're just big hypocrites, cool. How will we know we've been successful if we don't know exactly who they are and what they've done? When can fans go back to watching? Never? Who needs to go? Should we just shut the league down and start over? What's your endgame? 

[BudsOilers]

3 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

Why? What's the rationale? Seems like the more likely story is the criminal investigation into the Washington head trainer led to discovery of some juicy emails that an investigator leaked to the NYT.

No this is definitely from the cheerleader/sexual-harassment investigation. The one where Snyder got fined but really no dramatic punishment.

 

I’d be willing to bet that there’s plenty of other juicy emails in there that they’re either holding onto or protecting certain people from.  Hence the call for the NFL to release all of the emails

[Mythos27]

11 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

That's the stupidest fucking reason there can be and you accept it because you are some fucking pussy.

 

Are you saying EVERY black person is fine with being called the n-word by any other black person?

 

If not, then your stance is bullshit.

Holy fuck, you really don't read, I specifically said in my post that not all black people agree but that's not a conversation that you and people like you are invited to join. Your ancestors forfeited that right when they used that very word to dehumanize black people, idiot. Your input means absolutely nothing on this topic, deal with it. You can't think whatever you want but that's the reason. Get over it.

 

Go prove you're not a "pussy" by using the word around a bunch of black dudes you don't know. Bet you won't you fake ass tough guy. Being pussy has nothing to do with it, I just know how to respect people, you clearly don't and think your perceived right to say whatever you want should trump anything. A white guy that thinks it's business to tell black people how they should or shouldn't feel about the n-word; you're the poster child white conservative that can't mind his business. 

[oldschool]

3 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

No this is definitely from the cheerleader/sexual-harassment investigation. The one where Snyder got fined but really no dramatic punishment.

 

I’d be willing to bet that there’s plenty of other juicy emails in there that they’re either holding onto or protecting certain people from.  Hence the call for the NFL to release all of the emails

 

The Washingtonpost is already reporting the NFL said no more details will be released. 

[Mythos27]

18 minutes ago, LongTimeFan said:

BLM

Explain how BLM as an organization has an explicit goal to harm white people. This should be good .

[cenj]

5 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

You may think it's hollow and naive but the public outcry you're waving away is literally the only reason Gruden is out of a job. The NFL is a business and they recognize that known racists like Gruden are bad for business precisely because people like us will make a stink about it. The stench of being a racist or associating with one sticks with you in our society and that's a good thing IMO.  That's what the NFL is trying to avoid. No one actually thinks they have altruistic intentions but we'll take it because it's what we can get.

 

You may find it insufficient or convenient but the proof is in the pudding that it's at least effective in making public racism completely unacceptable. Either cancel culture is effective and worth complaining about it it's toothless and thus not worth complaining. Can't have it both ways. 

 

So what's your solution? All NFL fans should boycott the NFL until all the bigots are rooted out or they're just big hypocrites, cool. How will we know we've been successful if we don't know exactly who they are and what they've done? When can fans go back to watching? Never? Who needs to go? Should we just shut the league down and start over? What's your endgame? 

 

Yay for you. Gruden, one of many racist people involved in the NFL, is out, a public hit job orchestrated by other racist NFL people. 

 

As for what I want? Just for some people to engage in more honest reflection, and maybe pat themselves on the back a little less.

[Downtown]

12 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

Why? What's the rationale?

That's why all signs point to Davis just wanting Gruden gone and he had the ammo within the league to make it happen. Just needed that second loss to make it for fans to not cause an uproar. 

[Mythos27]

You know what's so crazy about these guys that are itching to say the n-word? Any time they want, they go in their car or wherever and scream that word as loudly and often as they want. No one can physically stop them. But I've realized it's not just about saying it; they want to say it publicly, even within earshot of black people and have nothing happen. As usual it's about power and control. Normal white people aren't consumed by this type of thinking.

[Mythos27]

5 minutes ago, cenj said:

 

Yay for you. Gruden, one of many racist people involved in the NFL, is out, a public hit job orchestrated by other racist NFL people. 

 

As for what I want? Just for some people to engage in more honest reflection, and maybe pat themselves on the back a little less.

Ok... But who is acting like Gruden being out solves racism? Everyone acknowledges that Gruden isn't the first nor will he be the last racist employed in the NFL. My point, which you haven't addressed is that without knowing who the other racists are, there isn't much to be done and no way to know when the job is done. Fans have tried to pressure owners out but they literally own the teams. There isn't much too be done that can force them to sell. Only time I saw it work was with the clippers owner. 

 

It seems to me your actual beef is that you feel people are using Gruden to"virtue signal" their "wokeness" and feeling good about it. If that's how you honestly feel then I guess you're entitled to your opinion but from where I sit people recognizing that anti-racism is even something to pander to is a massively positive cultural shift from the days you could say whatever the fuck you wanted to a black person, maybe even assault them and KNOW nothing will happen to you. I'm not letting perfect be the enemy of good. You take what you get and then try to get more; that's the way you get progress in America. 

 

[No1TitansFan]

5 hours ago, Thrill said:

Am I the only one who thinks there should be a statute of limitations on this kind of stuff? What he said was obviously racist and not cool, but I just worry about the precedent of firing a guy over something he said 10 years ago.

 

Just to note, I'm very supportive of LGBTQ, BLM, first nations, women's suffrage, etc but I've also certainly said stupid shit on facebook or text messages in Highschool and college that I'd hate to be held over my head later in life. 

You're not the face of a multi billion dollar organization that just spent a bunch of money moving to a new city, that's the difference.

[Starkiller]

3 hours ago, No1TitansFan said:

You're not the face of a multi billion dollar organization that just spent a bunch of money moving to a new city, that's the difference.

It’s also worth pointing out that the Raiders as an organization have also been pretty liberal politically on social issues. As an owner, Davis is less likely than someone like Jerry Jones to overlook a racist/sexist/homophobic head coach.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Starkiller