Cam Ward

[Mythos27]

Just now, ctm said:

Speaking of Bo Nix, I mentioned him early this year, maybe the fall of '23 and was told by some here that I was wrong to consider him.

Yup. He wasn't on my radar either. The reality is that we all fucking suck at picking at QBs. As such, we should not be too comfortable to dismiss and entire QB class just because we don't see an Andrew Luck level prospect that checks every box. Shit the 2 guys competing for MVP looked 100% undraftable to everyone on this board. 

[oldschool]

3 minutes ago, ctm said:

Speaking of Bo Nix, I mentioned him early this year, maybe the fall of '23 and was told by some here that I was wrong to consider him.

 

Not sure he's the best argument. His play this year was grossly exaggerated. the point remains though that the Broncos took him because they believe he can be a franchise QB. That doesn't mean they think he's the next Mahomes.  

[Mythos27]

1 minute ago, oldschool said:

 

You realize we are saying the same thing right? I was saying I didn't get the dude's argument you were responding to lol.

Lmao, damn. My bad. I get his argument though. It's the traditional don't take him unless he's "can't miss" train of thought. 

[oldschool]

1 minute ago, Mythos27 said:

Yup. He wasn't on my radar either. The reality is that we all fucking suck at picking at QBs. As such, we should not be too comfortable to dismiss and entire QB class just because we don't see an Andrew Luck level prospect that checks every box. Shit the 2 guys competing for MVP looked 100% undraftable to everyone on this board. 

 

The guys who do this shit for a living get it wrong 50% of the time. Draft nerds don't live in reality.

[ctm]

Just now, Mythos27 said:

Yup. He wasn't on my radar either. The reality is that we all fucking suck at picking at QBs. As such, we should not be too comfortable to dismiss and entire QB class just because we don't see an Andrew Luck level prospect that checks every box. Shit the 2 guys competing for MVP looked 100% undraftable to everyone on this board. 

 

There is also a logic failure with that argument.  Just because the Qb class as a whole is weak doesn't mean that there aren't a few exceptions.  Each guy has to be evaluated on his own..

[Mythos27]

3 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

The guys who do this shit for a living get it wrong 50% of the time. Draft nerds don't live in reality.

I think that you can evaluate most positions and have a pretty good idea of what kind of player you're drafting. QB seems to be really different though. Like I think you will usually be right if you look at a guy and he clearly sucks but once they pass a certain threshold of ability you're essentially guessing about what that ability will translate to in the NFL. 

Edited December 31, 2024 by Mythos27

[oldschool]

2 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

I think that you can evaluate most positions and have a pretty good idea of what kind of player you're drafting. QB seems to be really different though. Like I think you will usually be right if you look at a guy and he clearly sucks but once they pass a certain threshold of ability you're essentially guessing about what that ability will translate to in the NFL. 

 

I give you the top 3 from the 2021 class. personally I think Lawrence was vastly overrated as some sort of generational prospect but can you fault teams thinking either him or Wilson could develop into franchise guys? Probably not. Lance was a reach but not as bad as the one 2 years ago by the Colts on Richardson. 

 

Trevor Lawrence - https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Trevor-Lawrence-QB-Clemson

Zack Wilson - https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Zach-Wilson-QB-BYU

Trey Lance - https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Trevor-Lawrence-QB-Clemson

 

 

Edited December 31, 2024 by oldschool

[ctm]

Lack of college starting experience is a huge negative indicator.

[socaltitan]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

I just disagree with this mentality because it's a proven failure. The reality is that teams rarely, if ever, know which QB in a given class will be the best or even good. Dismissing an entire QB class unless you think one of them is going to be a superstar is frankly myopic in a league where you only have like 5 players that fit that criteria. Your QB also doesn't need to be a superstar for you to have a good team that contends for the playoffs every year.

 

Neither Goff, Love, nor Hurts is a superstar and of those 3 only Goff had a lot of hype around him going into his draft. I'm just saying that it's unwise to make perfect the enemy of good in this case especially when considering that the last QB prospects seen a "franchise-altering" were Caleb williams, Tua, and Trevor Lawrence; none of which turned out to be as good as predicted. I think it's arrogant to be sitting there with garbage at QB but turn up your nose at QBs that are likely upgrades because you don't think they'll be top 5 or because you're going to "wait for next year's class". As long as I deem a QB prospect a 1st round talent (for me that means he can start right away), then I'm taking him anywhere in that round including the top 5.  

I don't even remember Goff being that hyped. He was more of a mid 1st guy who got pushed up because he was a QB and teams are desperate. People can poo poo Goff but he's leading the #1 team in the NFC right now. I'll gladly take that.

[socaltitan]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

Yeah, I disagree. These guys both look much better than Levis but I'll know more after I actually dig in to them in the coming weeks. My initial feeling is that Cam is on the level of say Justin Herbert as a prospect, whereas Shadeur is somewhere around Deshaun watson with less play-making ability. 

Herbert and Watson had plenty of naysayers before the draft. Herbert was inconsistent in college and people questioned if he had the personality to be a leader. If Ward is anything close to Herbert in the NFL, we better run to that podium.

[socaltitan]

3 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

I think that you can evaluate most positions and have a pretty good idea of what kind of player you're drafting. QB seems to be really different though. Like I think you will usually be right if you look at a guy and he clearly sucks but once they pass a certain threshold of ability you're essentially guessing about what that ability will translate to in the NFL. 

Josh Allen was considered to be very raw coming out. He played at Wyoming and had middling production. There were serious accuracy concerns. I didn't see any pundit or fan who thought Mahomes was going to be what he is. He was a guy who played at Texas Tech with a lot of upside, but raw. Everyone thought the Broncos reached big time on Bo Nix. You just never know sometimes no matter how much you try to scout and project. How horrible would it be to pass on Ward/Sanders and one or both become big stars.

[oldschool]

https://tdscouting.com/scouting-report-justin-herbert

 

Doesn't anticipate throws or attack over the top with nearly the frequency or success of a typical top-of-the-draft prospect. A cautious QB by nature. Accuracy and mechanics suffer under pressure, as does his foot work. Needs to be more consistent setting his feet and not settling for fadeaway throws. Wild throwing deep with examples of bad overthrows and underthrows on tape. Throwing mechanics, while effective in a clean pocket, are deliberate, choppy and inconsistent under pressure.

 

Needs to improve his post-snap processing speed and decision making. Game-to-game consistency an issue as he plays with streaky confidence.

 

PLAYER COMPS

Mitchell Trubisky, Blake Bortles, Josh Allen, Carson Wentz

[BTiger3733]

I haven't decided what I think is best for us to do in this draft, but I do know that Cam is a stone cold killer in high pressure situations. Locker rooms will love him and he'll set a culture.

[Callidus]

4 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Ok, let me try to simplify my point for you; if you think that a QB prospect you're looking at is likely to be more like Baker Mayfield or Jared Goff as opposed to say Mahomes or Allen, would you draft him this year at #2?

Yes you absolutely draft them if you think its baker or goff. Im saying I dont think they are anything clpose to that. If you think they are a top 15qb you pull the trigger every time. 

[oldschool]

9 minutes ago, Callidus said:

Yes you absolutely draft them if you think its baker or goff. Im saying I dont think they are anything clpose to that. If you think they are a top 15qb you pull the trigger every time. 

 

Thats basically what everyone is saying. No one is saying reach for a QB like Ponder or EJ Manuel. There is too much stock being put into some random scout who talked to Brugler about there not being any 1st round QBs. Have you looked into draft profiles out there on Sanders and Ward. None of them I've read so far have them has 2nd or 3rd round prospects but that is the narrative that is being pushed. Makes no sense.