Derrick Henry is still an elite back.

[Mythos27]

It's fine to think that Eddie having a heart to heart with Henry was helpful in terms of giving him motivation and suggesting he change his approach. It's unreasonable to portray the talk as some magic moment that turned a Henry that this board erroneously thought was terrible in pretty much every way into the most dominant back in league pretty much overnight.  

 

It's also easier to say "I wasn't wrong about Henry, he just magically became a different player overnight thanks to Eddie" than it is to admit " damn, maybe my analysis of what was going on with Henry wasn't correct and I mis-evaluated him". Personally, I think that's what's going on when this topic comes up.

Edited February 25, 2025 by Mythos27

[BudsOilers]

You’re acting like the team didn’t have the same view of Henry having made Lewis the starter and acting like they weren’t shopping him at the trade deadline.  

 

He very clearly started running between the tackles more effectively and the yards after contact and broken tackle stats backed that up.  

 

You can pretend these facts didn’t happen all you want, but they did.  In Henry’s own words, he says it helped.
 

Henry deserves all the credit in the world for going from an under achieving player into a stud running back.  Further credit goes to him for reaching out to somebody for advice and an honest assessment of his play when his Titan career looked to be at the crossroads.  
 

 

[Mythos27]

30 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

You’re acting like the team didn’t have the same view of Henry having made Lewis the starter and acting like they weren’t shopping him at the trade deadline.  

 

He very clearly started running between the tackles more effectively and the yards after contact and broken tackle stats backed that up.  

 

You can pretend these facts didn’t happen all you want, but they did.  In Henry’s own words, he says it helped.
 

Henry deserves all the credit in the world for going from an under achieving player into a stud running back.  Further credit goes to him for reaching out to somebody for advice and an honest assessment of his play when his Titan career looked to be at the crossroads.  
 

 

Henry's words don't mean as much and you guys think. He was down on himself because he was not getting the playing time he was used to or producing to the level that he was used to. He's the type to point the thumb rather than the finger. However, none of that means that he was the actual problem. It's not very different from when QBs take the blame for picks or losses even though it's clear that it wasn't on them. He said what you expect someone who holds themselves accountable to say. Let me ask you a question. if Tannehill doesn't show up and fix everything, changes or no changes by Henry; does Henry become who he became?  If he continues to run behind that OL, with a Mariota level QB, how much impact does Eddie's advice really have? 

Edited February 25, 2025 by Mythos27

[Number9]

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Come over here King and talk to us.  "I was struggling to produce in the NFL.  I was one of the greatest RB to ever play at every step of my way to today-being inducted into the HOF.  But none of this would have ever happened without Talk to Eddie®."  

 

See there, right out of Da King's mouth!

Talk to Eddie®  1hr.  *1,000,000.

Edited February 25, 2025 by Number9

[BudsOilers]

12 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Henry's words don't mean as much and you guys think. He was down on himself because he was not getting the playing time he was used to or producing to the level that he was used to. He's the type to point the thumb rather than the finger. However, none of that means that he was the actual problem. It's not very different from when QBs take the blame for picks or losses even though it's clear that it wasn't on them. He said what you expect someone who holds themselves accountable to say. Let me ask you a question. if Tannehill doesn't show up and fix everything, changes or no changes by Henry; does Henry become who he became?  If he continues to run behind that OL, with a Mariota level QB, how much impact does Eddie's advice really have? 

Henry did become more productive after the Eddie talk.  The numbers show this and contextually he went from splitting carries in the rotation into being the lead back ahead of Lewis.   At the time of the talk, Lewis was more productive than Henry in terms of success rate, YPC, Broken Tackle rate, and they had the same YAC/carry.....

 

No question he jumped up to another level once Tannehill became the starter and made the offense balanced but that doesn't mean he didn't jump up in play from early 2018 to late 2018.

 

It's just a weird hill for you to die on as literally nobody is giving Eddie George credit for saving Henry's career.  What he did, in all likelihood, is enable Henry to be more focused on using with his physicality in between the tackles more effectively and help him regain his confidence as a runner.

 

 

[Mythos27]

3 hours ago, BudsOilers said:

Henry did become more productive after the Eddie talk.  The numbers show this and contextually he went from splitting carries in the rotation into being the lead back ahead of Lewis.   At the time of the talk, Lewis was more productive than Henry in terms of success rate, YPC, Broken Tackle rate, and they had the same YAC/carry.....

 

No question he jumped up to another level once Tannehill became the starter and made the offense balanced but that doesn't mean he didn't jump up in play from early 2018 to late 2018.

 

It's just a weird hill for you to die on as literally nobody is giving Eddie George credit for saving Henry's career.  What he did, in all likelihood, is enable Henry to be more focused on using with his physicality in between the tackles more effectively and help him regain his confidence as a runner.

 

 

I'm "dying on the hill" because the narrative way overstates the impact of the talk with Eddie in order to massively understate how much of Henry's issues were tied to the situation he was in at the time. The uptick in Henry's production was neglible (until the last 4 games) in comparison to what we saw unfold once the actual problems were solved. I will also remind you that even after Henry kind of broke through in 2018, he went right back to struggling in early 2019 until the QB change. That alone should dismiss the idea that a simple change in approach was responsible for such a massive difference.

 

 I reject the idea that Henry himself was the biggest impediment to his own success as a runner (he had real issues in the passing game early on) and that it was the Eddie talk that unleashed him on the league. Did it help some? Probably. But the bigger problems Henry had were not bouncing runs too much and taking too few 3 yards gains. His much bigger problems were a terrible passing game and under-performing OL. That's why I bring up the Saquon example so much. I'm sure people could grind Saquon's tape and find some ways in which his play improved. There might even be a position coach or two out there who feel they should be credited for Saquon blossoming under their tutelage but the reality of the situation is that the Saquon we saw in 2024 is the same guy he's always been; he just had enough around him to finally show it consistently. That's what happened with Henry. I'm not going to give Eddie Geroge more credit than the RB coaches that worked with Henry every day. 

 

It's not uncommon to see a RB's production jump up when he finds himself on a team with a good QB and OL. It's very uncommon to see a player go from good with some potential to HOF caliber on the back of one talk with a mentor. If the QB change doesn't happen, Henry likely doesn't get a 2nd contract here. Tannehill saved a lot of careers and he hasn't been thanked properly for it IMO. 

[BudsOilers]

13 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I'm "dying on the hill" because the narrative way overstates the impact of the talk with Eddie in order to massively understate how much of Henry's issues were tied to the situation he was in at the time. The uptick in Henry's production was neglible (until the last 4 games) in comparison to what we saw unfold once the actual problems were solved. I will also remind you that even after Henry kind of broke through in 2018, he went right back to struggling in early 2019 until the QB change. That alone should dismiss the idea that a simple change in approach was responsible for such a massive difference.

 

 I reject the idea that Henry himself was the biggest impediment to his own success as a runner (he had real issues in the passing game early on) and that it was the Eddie talk that unleashed him on the league. Did it help some? Probably. But the bigger problems Henry had were not bouncing runs too much and taking too few 3 yards gains. His much bigger problems were a terrible passing game and under-performing OL. That's why I bring up the Saquon example so much. I'm sure people could grind Saquon's tape and find some ways in which his play improved. There might even be a position coach or two out there who feel they should be credited for Saquon blossoming under their tutelage but the reality of the situation is that the Saquon we saw in 2024 is the same guy he's always been; he just had enough around him to finally show it consistently. That's what happened with Henry. I'm not going to give Eddie Geroge more credit than the RB coaches that worked with Henry every day. 

 

It's not uncommon to see a RB's production jump up when he finds himself on a team with a good QB and OL. It's very uncommon to see a player go from good with some potential to HOF caliber on the back of one talk with a mentor. If the QB change doesn't happen, Henry likely doesn't get a 2nd contract here. Tannehill saved a lot of careers and he hasn't been thanked properly for it IMO. 

Yes you're dying on the hill by pretending Henry was playing perfectly fine in 2018 before he reached out to George for some 3rd party perspective of his play.  Bear in mind that at that time, Lewis was playing better than Henry was, which is absurd given the talent levels of the two.  Hence, he was being shopped in trade talks and was on the verge of losing some carries to Fluellen.  That doesn't mean that the QB play and OL play didn't have issues but Henry also had his own part in the situation.  Of course, that's very likely WHY he reached out to George in the first place.

 

After the talk, he did seem more committed to running between the tackles and focusing on using his physicality to finish runs.  He had much improved Yards After Contact metric,  something that stuck in 2019 even when Mariota was playing despite the dip in YPC and YPG before the switch.

 

No question the switch to Tannehill in turn impacted Henry, the receivers, and the OL play and Henry went to another level production wise (YPC, YPG, explosive runs).  Totally agree that Henry is in the line of guys who made a ton of money thanks to getting a real QB.....Quiver Chins, Vrabel, Smith, Davis, Jonnu, etc......At the same time, there was a good chance Henry would have landed somewhere and put it together had he left in FA in 2020 had Robinson not been forced to allow Vrabel to bench Mariota.

 

 

 

 

[OILERMAN]

@Mythos27 listen to Tomato Can give an honest critique of his tomato can play early in his career and how he took responsibility and turned it around. Notice he doesn't say he just needed carries?

 

 

[TerryBoats]

3 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

@Mythos27 listen to Tomato Can give an honest critique of his tomato can play early in his career and how he took responsibility and turned it around. Notice he doesn't say he just needed carries?

 

 

He dominated a weak division in high school, and played with the best college football coach in history and on the most talented rosters.  He didn't really need to give 100% to be successful, but the NFL is a totally different beast. He absolutely flipped a switch in year 3.

Edited August 19 by TerryBoats

[bizzyeddie]

for a split second I thought budsoilers has risen

[IsntLifeFunny]

6 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

@Mythos27 listen to Tomato Can give an honest critique of his tomato can play early in his career and how he took responsibility and turned it around. Notice he doesn't say he just needed carries?

 

 

Yep. It doesn't matter the order of operations or how much he was affected by the combination. Something obviously clicked for him. We both remember that vividly. 

[titanruss]

It'd be interesting to go back and re-read the discussion at the time because I feel like there's been a lot of flip-flopping on who thought the Eddie talk mattered or not. 

 

But we always know what this conversation really is... a dying love-song for Mulbiskie from the Mulbiskites. 

[cenj]

8 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

@Mythos27 listen to Tomato Can give an honest critique of his tomato can play early in his career and how he took responsibility and turned it around. Notice he doesn't say he just needed carries?

 

 

 

“After that... Something changed. Something just clicked. I would probably say that was the pivot moment for me. Without that happening in my life, ain’t no telling where my career would have went.”

 

I mean...that's about as open and shut as a debate like this gets. 

[XAEA12]

10 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

@Mythos27 listen to Tomato Can give an honest critique of his tomato can play early in his career and how he took responsibility and turned it around. Notice he doesn't say he just needed carries?

 

 

 

So players are stupid and don't know what they are talking about and their opinions shouldn't be listened to, unless they agree with you. Got it 

[TerryBoats]

5 hours ago, titanruss said:

It'd be interesting to go back and re-read the discussion at the time because I feel like there's been a lot of flip-flopping on who thought the Eddie talk mattered or not. 

 

But we always know what this conversation really is... a dying love-song for Mulbiskie from the Mulbiskites. 

Alot of people bought into that.  I think he needed to hear a grown man tell him that he was running like a bitch.  I don't anyone ever told him that before in his life.  That probably lit a fire under him as much as facing the possibility of being traded.