Trump’s 2nd term: American Carnage

[Titans279]

1 minute ago, Justafan said:

I largely agree, I just think they SHOULD look to cut spending from all of those programs and there are reasonable ways to do so that wouldn't compromise our QOL, security, or abandon our elders.

Sure, I don’t think anyone disagrees at a high level but the devil is always in the details. 
 

Just like they could have made USAID more efficient but they decided to essentially destroy it. Even the good bits that save tons of lives. 
 

Going after Social Security and Medicare (not as much Medicaid*) will probably destroy them politically if they try to do significant cuts. I don’t think you can make the cuts necessary to eliminate the budget deficit (and presumably start paying down the debt) especially while cutting taxes without effecting QOL for people. 
 

*A lot of Trumpers (who are not your typical Republicans) rely on Medicaid though so they will have to be more careful than a typical Republican administration. 

[tgo]

I'm fine with cutting some entitlement spending as long as they massively increase taxes on the ultra wealthy as well. Otherwise it's just another wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.

[tgo]

 

Edited February 14, 2025 by tgo

[Jamalisms]

Just now, tgo said:

I'm fine with cutting some entitlement spending as long as they massively increase taxes on the ultra wealthy as well. Otherwise it's just another wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.

 

That's always the result and the gap between rich and poor continues to grow for a reason. 

 

For me, addressing that gap is the single-best way to ensure prosperity as a country ... but too many are unwilling to reframe their preconceived ideas, so we just feed the gap like mindless automatons.

[tgo]

2 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

 

That's always the result and the gap between rich and poor continues to grow for a reason. 

 

For me, addressing that gap is the single-best way to ensure prosperity as a country ... but too many are unwilling to reframe their preconceived ideas, so we just feed the gap like mindless automatons.

 

At some point, without action, if the poor and middle class continue to decline and suffer while the wealth gap grows and grows -

 

Well - the rich become the main course on the menu.

[Jamalisms]

Nothing about modern history indicates to me that "the poor" are capable of /willing to blame the rich. Even MAGA is fed by some of that unrest and it's turned to, glorified and installed Elon Musk - literally the world richest man - to fix things.

[tgo]

2 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

Nothing about modern history indicates to me that "the poor" are capable of /willing to blame the rich. Even MAGA is fed by some of that unrest and it's turned to, glorified and installed Elon Musk - literally the world richest man - to fix things.

 

Well let's go real old school then - the French Revolution.

[Titans279]

I think the US is way too capitalist to ever actually go after the rich. If they do it will be a selective purge led by people like Trump and Musk of the wealthy who aren’t willing to play along. 

[oldschool]

52 minutes ago, Justafan said:

My only point is that the government is extremely bloated and SOMEONE should be going through the entire federal government with a fine tooth comb and making cuts wherever possible or necessary until we reign the deficit spending back into sane levels. 

 

I don't think that person should be Elon Musk and I thought I made that clear, nor do I think Trump will do this responsibly. I will say that Dems and EVERYONE in Washington has had their chance to do something and NONE  of them have done ANYTHING worth note to actually fix an obvious problem that has been growing for decades.

 

In that context, Musk has a point and is doing what most Americans want.

 

I hope that clears it up. 

 

The biggest grift is the fact the GOP explodes the deficit every time they gain control of congress and the Whitehouse. They want $4.5T worth of tax cuts for the wealthy. Guess who pays for that? the middle class and poor people. Its insane how most Americans think The GOP handles the economy and the debt better from a governing standpoint.

[WG53]

29 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

At some point, without action, if the poor and middle class continue to decline and suffer while the wealth gap grows and grows -

 

Well - the rich become the main course on the menu.

Guillotine time.

[Justafan]

50 minutes ago, tgo said:

I'm fine with cutting some entitlement spending as long as they massively increase taxes on the ultra wealthy as well. Otherwise it's just another wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.

Absolutely. This is a spot where I will largely disagree with Republicans and Trumpers. Taxation is important to fund common-sense government initiatives that it only makes sense for government to actually run. 

 

One of the biggest problems and, ironically, reasons for so many people being angry and upset is that the economy clearly doesn't work the same for everyone and there has been a clear trend of wealth growing in this country but not for everyone. The tax code has a lot to do with that, and whether reality reflects it or not, the complexity of the tax code contributes to that perception. 

 

In my opinion, the tax code should be simplified, and many/most of the loopholes eliminated, and the high-end tax brackets should be set at a reasonable rate - honestly I think current rate of 37% even would be fine if that was the actual rate that people and more importantly business actually paid - that taxes all income roughly the same way instead of taxing wages at a MUCH higher rate than capital gains or debt models for instance. 

 

They should also end all the government subsidies to business which creates a ton of conflicts of interest and doesn't benefit tax payers nearly as much as politicians and businesses would like us to believe. 

 

What can't be accepted is the flat tax or anything that resembles that because it would just be one more way to sell out the middle class. 

Edited February 14, 2025 by Justafan

[ChesterCopperpot1]

1 hour ago, oldschool said:

FAFO Maga fuckers. I have no fucks to give any longer.

 

https://x.com/JackRyanlives/status/1890239300329173302

Ready for it all to burn and for people to hurt. Maybe people will finally wake the fuck up. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

If you care to go back and frame my comments correctly, I'll be happy to respond. 

 

I used your comment as a jumping off point, as I was responding to what is, yes, a generalization (the government is bloated, the people in charge have gotten it wrong). I realize you are not totally in support of Musk, etc. Like in any dialogue I was not quoting you to do a one to one rhetorical analysis of what you've written. 

 

But glib comments aside, as what you have continued to share demonstrates I don't think I've missed your point. 

 

You are saying that Elon Musk represents someone doing something about a problem--a problem where the "auditors" have failed. 

 

I don't think any of us really disagree that there are problems, as have been shared here. My point was that the process by which this was being done is alarming. 

 

And to reframe what I said--it kind of seems like many are downplaying this, which is further alarming to me. 

 

I don't think there's a singular problem in America bad enough that we give up the basic foundations of American democracy and have one person rip through whole agencies--careers of work--like it's nothing. 

 

Without so much as having to make an argument to the American people. That doesn't not really feel like cutting bloat, it feels like burning the house down to get rid of clutter. And I have a hard time with people who rationalize Musk at all. It is chilling for me to see someone leverage wealth to gain unprecedented access and go through a process of destroying information, changing systems, and deleting agencies and programs. It seems like you agree to an extent, but don't agree about the severity of the issue. Maybe I am the one over thinking this, and this isn't a constitutional crisis and Musk standing behind the Resolute Desk is not really that big a deal. 

[Titans279]

Tweet from the Director of Immigration Studies at the Cato institute (libertarian) here. This guy is no liberal btw.

 

This is insane. The US government is dumping Asian and African families and children in random countries that they have no connection to. Dumping, not "deporting." Deportation implies the return of a person to their home country. This is treating people like toxic waste.

 

 

https://x.com/David_J_Bier/status/1890463266775667060

[nine]

5 minutes ago, Titans279 said:

Tweet from the Director of Immigration Studies at the Cato institute (libertarian) here. This guy is no liberal btw.

 

This is insane. The US government is dumping Asian and African families and children in random countries that they have no connection to. Dumping, not "deporting." Deportation implies the return of a person to their home country. This is treating people like toxic waste.

 

 

https://x.com/David_J_Bier/status/1890463266775667060

 

Remember the clip of a House or Senate hearing where a GOP member was grilling the CEO of an Asian social media company (Tik Tok, maybe?).  
 

The CEO kept having to repeatedly explain over and over that he’s from Singapore.  He’s not Chinese…not Korean….not Vietnamese or Japanese. He’s Singaporian.    
 

The congressman/woman who was asking the questions clearly had absolutely no idea that Singapore is a sovereign nation.  They simply couldn’t wrap their head around it or grasp the concept…even after having it explained repeatedly like a four-year old.    
 
That whole sequence encapsulated the incredibly narrowminded, uninformed,  and insular MAGA worldview:  “ ‘Murica only!  Fuck  everybody else!”