Cam Ward

[Pragidealist]

Just now, Mythos27 said:

I really don't think we are. Hiding your QB is not an impressive coaching feat. It's something that any coach can do and it has a very short shelf life unless your team is very talented. That's not superior coaching or scheming. Using Willis as an example of Callahan's incompetence doesn't make sense from any angle. The problem with hiding your QB when the rest of the team sucks too is that you'll lose anyways. If you can hide your QB and win, it means you have a pretty talented roster. 

It's also a terrible terrible thing to do with a rebuilding team.  So instead of Ward, we win two more games by hiding teh qb. maybe even 3 and get what?  The Titans have tried to win many times hiding the qb.  We know it can be done- its a bad idea.  Just lose, take the medicine until you can get one. 

 

Now if you're a team where its a back up, temp situation-  go for it.  In that scenario, you're just seeing out the clock until your guy is back.   I have no idea if Callahan could have hidden Wills or Levis as well as Lafluer.  I suspect not bc we dont' have the talent around him but I also don't care.   It's such a horrible strategy when you're trying to rebuild and  you don't have a qb. 

 

 

[Mythos27]

2 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

It's also a terrible terrible thing to do with a rebuilding team.  So instead of Ward, we win two more games by hiding teh qb. maybe even 3 and get what?  The Titans have tried to win many times hiding the qb.  We know it can be done- its a bad idea.  Just lose, take the medicine until you can get one. 

 

Now if you're a team where its a back up, temp situation-  go for it.  In that scenario, you're just seeing out the clock until your guy is back.   I have no idea if Callahan could have hidden Wills or Levis as well as Lafluer.  I suspect not bc we dont' have the talent around him but I also don't care.   It's such a horrible strategy when you're trying to rebuild and  you don't have a qb. 

 

 

Exactly correct. GB was in the middle of a playoff run and they knew it. They did a great job keeping Willis on the rails and not asking too much of him. Unfortunately, you can't take approach with a young starter you're trying to groom to be the future. 

[TerryBoats]

51 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I really don't think we are. Hiding your QB is not an impressive coaching feat. It's something that any coach can do and it has a very short shelf life unless your team is very talented. That's not superior coaching or scheming. Using Willis as an example of Callahan's incompetence doesn't make sense from any angle. The problem with hiding your QB when the rest of the team sucks too is that you'll lose anyways. If you can hide your QB and win, it means you have a pretty talented roster. That's why GB was able to hide Willis and win while we struggled to hide Levis. 

Green Bay was #4 in EPA per dropback in Willis's two starts - they even outperformed their EPA on the season with Love starting .  

 

Tennessee was dead last in EPA in 2022 with Willis starting.  Including an abysmal -.73 EPA per dropback in the win against a horrible Houston team.  

 

As you see, there are degrees to how much you can hide a bad QB.  You can win in spite of them, or they can be a positive contributor to your success, as Willis was in GB.

 

47 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

It's also a terrible terrible thing to do with a rebuilding team.  So instead of Ward, we win two more games by hiding teh qb. maybe even 3 and get what?  The Titans have tried to win many times hiding the qb.  We know it can be done- its a bad idea.  Just lose, take the medicine until you can get one. 

 

Now if you're a team where its a back up, temp situation-  go for it.  In that scenario, you're just seeing out the clock until your guy is back.   I have no idea if Callahan could have hidden Wills or Levis as well as Lafluer.  I suspect not bc we dont' have the talent around him but I also don't care.   It's such a horrible strategy when you're trying to rebuild and  you don't have a qb. 

 

 

I'll always be thankful to Callahan for getting us the Ward pick.  Because you're right - SB is a fantasy without the QB.

 

But the thing about coaches who can make good gameplans for bad QBs - they can do the same for good QBs.   Nobody throws to more open receivers than Mahomes.  He averaged under 6 air yards per attempt in his last two SB victories - not much different than what Reid would ask of Alex Smith. And as we can see in Cincinnati and Buffalo, that's a much more successful strategy than putting everything on the shoulders of the QB. 

 

We suck, and that's not on Callahan.  But when this roster improved, we'll need to have a coach who can even the playing field.  And I'm seeing someone in Callahan who is just going up constantly be outcoached on the biggest stage, just like Buffalo has been.

Edited September 2, 2025 by TerryBoats

[Pragidealist]

2 minutes ago, TerryBoats said:

Green Bay was #4 in EPA per dropback in Willis's two starts - they even outperformed their EPA on the season with Love starting .  

 

Tennessee was dead last in EPA in 2022 with Willis starting.  Including an abysmal -.73 EPA per dropback in the win against a horrible Houston team.  

 

As you see, there are degrees to how much you can hide a bad QB.  You can win in spite of them, or they can be a positive contributor to your success, as Willis was in GB.

 

I'll always be thankful to Callahan for getting us the Ward pick.  Because you're right - SB is a fantasy without the QB.

 

But the thing about coaches who can make good gameplans for bad QBs - they can do the same for good QBs.   Nobody throws to more open receivers than Mahomes.  He averaged under 6 air yards per attempt in his last two SB victories - not much different than what Reid would ask of Alex Smith. And as we can see in Cincinnati and Buffalo, that's a much more successful strategy than putting everything on the shoulders of the QB.  If we want to compete with that, we'll need to have a coach who can even the playing field.  

 

 

not really-  wait until you see how many "open wr's" the titans suddenly have with ward.  QB is everything in the nfl.     

 

Horses win races-  

[Mythos27]

1 minute ago, TerryBoats said:

Green Bay was #4 in EPA per dropback in Willis's two starts - they even outperformed their EPA on the season with Love starting .  

 

Tennessee was dead last in EPA in 2022 with Willis starting.  Including an abysmal -.73 EPA per dropback in the win against a horrible Houston team.  

 

As you see, there are degrees to how much you can hide a bad QB.  You can win in spite of them, or they can be a positive contributor to your success, as Willis was in GB.

 

I'll always be thankful to Callahan for getting us the Ward pick.  Because you're right - SB is a fantasy without the QB.

 

But the thing about coaches who can make good gameplans for bad QBs - they can do the same for good QBs.   Nobody throws to more open receivers than Mahomes.  He averaged under 6 air yards per attempt in his last two SB victories - he was essentially a game manager. And as we can see in Cincinnati and Buffalo, that's a much more successful strategy than putting everything on the shoulders of the QB.  If we want to compete with that, we'll need to have a coach who can even the playing field.  

 

 

Once again; this is all easily explained by Willis having better players around him in GB. You just can't get around that. The degree to which you can hide that QB is directly determined by how good the rest of your team is. Had Willis gone to say the Saints or Patriots and done well, you'd have a point because those rosters sucked too. But that's not what happened. 

[scine09]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

I really don't think we are. Hiding your QB is not an impressive coaching feat. It's something that any coach can do and it has a very short shelf life unless your team is very talented. That's not superior coaching or scheming. Using Willis as an example of Callahan's incompetence doesn't make sense from any angle. The problem with hiding your QB when the rest of the team sucks too is that you'll lose anyways. If you can hide your QB and win, it means you have a pretty talented roster. That's why GB was able to hide Willis and win while we struggled to hide Levis. 

It also makes no sense since Callahan literally never coached Willis.

[rns90]

You guys are wasting your time on this one.  Once Terry gets his tunnel vision onto something he ain’t giving up no matter how stupid he sounds (see Smith, Arthur and Robinson, Jon as prime examples).

[Mythos27]

25 minutes ago, scine09 said:

It also makes no sense since Callahan literally never coached Willis.

Yes, but he's trying to make the argument that better coaching got more out of a player that we've all agreed is worse than Levis. The argument just fails because he can't account for a variable that everyone agrees is more impactful. 

[Mythos27]

20 minutes ago, rns90 said:

You guys are wasting your time on this one.  Once Terry gets his tunnel vision onto something he ain’t giving up no matter how stupid he sounds (see Smith, Arthur and Robinson, Jon as prime examples).

Was he also the Taywan Taylor guy or am I thinking of someone else?

[rns90]

1 minute ago, Mythos27 said:

Was he also the Taywan Taylor guy or am I thinking of someone else?

That one too.  He hated that guy.

[TerryBoats]

8 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Was he also the Taywan Taylor guy or am I thinking of someone else?

Matt LaFluer's brilliant coaching gave me a false impression of Taylor, as he posted great separation numbers despite being unable to even run a route correctly.  Davis also averaged the best separation of his career as his WR2, despite barely being passable for a WR2 during most of it.  LaFluer really does work miracles!

[Mythos27]

16 minutes ago, rns90 said:

That one too.  He hated that guy.

The guy I remember loved him. 

[Mythos27]

8 minutes ago, TerryBoats said:

Matt LaFluer's brilliant coaching gave me a false impression of Taylor, as he posted great separation numbers despite being unable to even run a route correctly.  Davis also averaged the best separation of his career as his WR2, despite barely being passable for a WR2 during most of it.  LaFluer really does work miracles!

Listen, I have no intent on arguing against Matt Lafleur. He is a great coach and he did scheme those guys open a bunch. Corey couldn't stay healthy and Taylor had bricks for hands. Mariota was too scared to throw the damn ball. Just more evidence that coaching can't cover up shit play for very long. 

[scine09]

LaFleur also fell into a great situation which enabled him to grow as a head coach.  I don't think he'd have had the success that Vrabel had with the Titans.  Mainly because I don't think he was ready.  He took over a Green Bay team with a motivated Aaron Rodgers still in his prime.

[titanruss]

Willis was always a 3-4 year project before he was even supposed to see the field. He's not a good player nor has he ever been. His floor was so low that of course after 3 years he looked less incompetent. 

 

This has zero to do with LaFleur coaching him up. But putting him a decent spot to produce is a credit to LaFleur. 

 

The argument could easily be made that Callahan is the one that improved Willis. Since BC had Willis in the spring and for part of camp . He was gone for a couple of weeks and then he's magically not terrible? No. 

 

This is also a bigger indictment on Vrabel than anyone. 

 

 

That said, I don't expect Terry to follow anything other than short term answers. He's blind to long term effects of basically anything. You can see that in his political responses.

Edited September 2, 2025 by titanruss