Nascar and the Confederate Flag

[reo]

Nascar is doing the right thing. Of course they're doing it for PR but it's still amazing to see. This would've been unthinkable a year ago. It's good to see.

[Come on Titans]

South Carolina Refuses To Remove Confederate Flag From Capitol Trailer

 

https://www.theonion.com/south-carolina-refuses-to-remove-confederate-flag-from-1819577937

[OilerTitanHybrid]

This would be a trip.  Joking here of course, but these days, you never know.  What if Bubba Wallace was pulling a Jussie Smollett and placed that noose in his own damn garage to further the cause.  Oh my.

  

[Lars]

So this was another hoax. So effing predictable 

[Stan]

My uncle and aunt live in Germany. They told me the country did everything possible for them to not show or gave anything nazi related. They did it right they didn’t allow that history to linger and eradicated it completely. The Germans for most part are remorseful for what they did. Look at US.. we made sculptures for slave owners and kept the confederate flag in some states. 

[NashvilleNinja]

 

On 6/12/2020 at 5:43 AM, ctm said:

Why....because we choose not to honor treason to the union for preserving slavery.  The history is still there.  It isn't erased.  But we aren't going to celebrate it with monuments in public places recognizing the traitors.

Found this from someone on Quora:

 

Quote

Did the Confederates commit treason?

John S Masterson, Retired Major (Medical Service Corps), US Army

The answers given are technically true, but you have to consider the spirit of the times. Many people of the United States had limited education. The American Revolution was not that long before (about like Vietnam is for us today). There were still veterans of that war still alive. But anyway, most people thought of themselves as citizens of their state rather than of the United States. They considered themselves as Virginians or New Yorkers rather than Americans; and, like Robert E. Lee, followed their state. Even the Army was set up that way. There were a few Federal regiments (e.g., 2nd US Cavalry), but most were raised by the state (e.g., 55th New York; 20th Maine; 1st Georgia).

So in many cases Confederates did not consider themselves to be traitors. Those who joined the Army were answering the call of their state, as did their Union brothers. Those who did not felt no loyalty to the forces who, as they saw it, invaded their land, burned their homes an farms, and killed their sons.

Abraham Lincoln did not intend to treat the South harshly after the war, according to his speeches. Much of this came from reaction to his assassination. And most of the Confederates were never charged with treason. However they were treated harshly by the carpetbaggers and scalawags who swarmed into the South.

Idk... seems like people are being a little too loose with the terms "traitors" and "anti-America". I have doubts that all who were on the side of abolitionism were so out of the pure goodness, love, and light of their noble hearts. If abolishing slavery meant that the more industrialized north would have more financial superiority and control over the south I have to wonder if that was more of a driving factor in their support for abolition than any notion of human decency and equality. If slavery would have meant lining their pockets more effectively would the north have moved against slavery so absolutely?

 

Also, the people calling the south treasonous for trying to secede from the north are ignoring the glaring fact that America itself was guilty of secession for breaking away from Britain. From the POV of Britain the entire American nation was treasonous. We disagreed... hence the American Revolutionary War. Disagree with the south's reasons for wanting to secede from the north... they weren't all about slavery, fwiw... but one man's treason is another man's fight for freedom.

Edited June 24, 2020 by NashvilleNinja

[NashvilleNinja]

Slavery was an inhumane and cruel institution, and beyond that had any economical benefit you could argue for it far outstripped by industrialization.

 

But where was the north's olive branch to the south in this? Did they much attempt to help the south join this revolution of industrialization or did they just mostly attempt to steamroll the south and subjugate it into bowing to northern will? And did the south ever show willingness to accept another way or were they stubborn ane slow to change because they just wanted to keep things status quo?

 

Or was it a mix of all that?

[Btowner]

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a hoax. Maybe an over reaction? Supposedly,  it was NASCAR who reported the noose and told him about it. In this heighten environment, he gets assigned a garage, they  open the garage and the first thing you see is a rope/noose. 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Btowner

[NashvilleNinja]

1 hour ago, Btowner said:

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a hoax. Maybe an over reaction? Supposedly,  it was NASCAR who reported the noose and told him about it. In this heighten environment, he gets assigned a garage, they  open the garage and the first thing you see is a rope/noose. 

 

Lol Somebody called a garage pull rope a "noose". Only if there's an engine with its nod rockin...

[klaatu'sAngel'sUncle]

One of these days, I hope, people will wait to make breathless announcements of heinous acts committed until after  the investigation is complete. Confirmation bias strikes again. 

[Starkiller]

6 minutes ago, klaatu- said:

One of these days, I hope, people will wait to make breathless announcements of heinous acts committed until after  the investigation is complete. Confirmation bias strikes again. 

Well several black men recently have been found hanging from trees and there is a history of lynchings in the south, so it’s not like it wasn’t a rational response to finding what appeared to be a noose in the garage of the only black driver in nascar. No one jumped to a conclusion and blamed anyone in particular. At least they found out what was going on and it wasn’t what it originally looked like.

[klaatu'sAngel'sUncle]

Just now, Starkiller said:

Well several black men recently have been found hanging from trees and there is a history of lynchings in the south, so it’s not like it wasn’t a rational response to finding what appeared to be a noose in the garage of the only black driver in nascar. No one jumped to a conclusion and blamed anyone in particular. At least they found out what was going on and it wasn’t what it originally looked like.

I think the bias was warranted in his situation. There's nothing more southern than Nascar and they banned their precious flag so I would be suspicious of everything if I were the only black driver. He saw the rope and it confirmed what he was expecting to find. Everyone has unconscious biases of some kind, some learned some innate, some unfounded and some for good reason like this one. 

[Number9]

14 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

Well several black men recently have been found hanging from trees and there is a history of lynchings in the south, so it’s not like it wasn’t a rational response to finding what appeared to be a noose in the garage of the only black driver in nascar. No one jumped to a conclusion and blamed anyone in particular. At least they found out what was going on and it wasn’t what it originally looked like.

Why would a noose be used?  Story kinda smelly.  If that's a common rope, why has no one seen one before?  

[OzTitan]

It's good to know it wasn't a deliberate racist act. I think the fact it was assumed to be, while a mistake in hindsight, says more about the situation as a whole as it wasn't an unreasonable assumption to make. We need to get to a place where the assumption simply wouldn't have been made, which largely comes down to stamping it out with positive actions and removing it from people's consciousness as a threat over time. You don't do that by minimizing and disregarding.

[OilerTitanHybrid]

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