titanruss Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 4 hours ago, TerryBoats said: It has less to do with his skill players (which were fine in Miami), and more due to him playing with a good OL for the first and only time in his entire career Check out PFF's annual OL rankings when he was in Miami- they were bottom 10, usually bottom 5 every single year. And that's eventually where the Titans' OL ended up during the last few years of his tenure. Just look at the difference between QB efficiency in a clean pocket vs under pressure for all QBs, and you'll be able to come to the correct conclusion about his career. I think you need to go check those sack % again.... Per drop back he was sacked more here than in Miami. The total numbers and yardage lost were less because he threw the ball significantly less. Essentially we protected the QB by not throwing a ton.... not by actual protection. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TannRy00.htm Just for his most productive 3 years though.... yes he had his best year here in 2020. But 2019 was putrid for sacks and 2021 was worse than his career average. Both worse than his average while in Miami. I will cede that we put him in difficult spots on 3rd down but that's about it. He was good because we had AJ and DH, the best 3rd down and red zone playcalling in the league, and didn't ask him to throw as much as most starters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo59 Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 AAS fired Vrabel and he eventually got a promotion running one of the better organizations in football with a new QB. Gonna be fun to watch AAS logic blow up in her face again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 (edited) 18 hours ago, titanruss said: I think you need to go check those sack % again.... Per drop back he was sacked more here than in Miami. The total numbers and yardage lost were less because he threw the ball significantly less. Essentially we protected the QB by not throwing a ton.... not by actual protection. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TannRy00.htm Just for his most productive 3 years though.... yes he had his best year here in 2020. But 2019 was putrid for sacks and 2021 was worse than his career average. Both worse than his average while in Miami. I will cede that we put him in difficult spots on 3rd down but that's about it. He was good because we had AJ and DH, the best 3rd down and red zone playcalling in the league, and didn't ask him to throw as much as most starters. Tannehill had one of the lowest expected completion %s in the NFL in 2019, and the highest CPOE ever recorded. Tennessee didn't protect him from shit, and he in fact thrived when they put him in a position to fail (as the QB that he replaced did) He had a higher sack % because Miami ran a more proficient and quick passing WC offense, while Tennessee's was low-volume, with a much greater focus on slow-developing PA passes. This opened him up to more sack opportunities. But his time to throw was by far the greatest in his career. The success of the 2019 offense was dependant on a QB with elite accuracy, an OL which could hold up for the nearly 3 second required for the QB to execute the designed plays, and receivers who could catch the ball in traffic. When the latter two disappeared, so did Tannehill's and the offensive production and efficiency. Henry was one of the least significant factors. Just like Philadelphia's offense and QB play weren't better this year than they were in 2022 despite adding Barkley and throwing the ball less. Edited January 17 by TerryBoats OILERMAN, titanruss, IsntLifeFunny, and 2 others 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OILERMAN Posted January 17 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 17 14 minutes ago, TerryBoats said: Tannehill had one of the lowest expected completion %s in the NFL in 2019, and the highest CPOE ever recorded. Tennessee didn't protect him from shit, and he in fact thrived when they put him in a position to fail (as the QB that he replaced did) He had a higher sack % because Miami ran a more proficient and quick passing WC offense, while Tennessee's was low-volume, with a much greater focus on slow-developing PA passes. This opened him up to more sack opportunities. But his time to throw was by far the greatest in his career. The success of the 2019 offense was dependant on a QB with elite accuracy, an OL which could hold up for the nearly 3 second required for the QB to execute the designed plays, and receivers who could catch the ball in traffic. When the latter two disappeared, so did Tannehill's and the offensive production and efficiency. Henry was one of the least significant factors. Just like Philadelphia's offense and QB play weren't better this year than they were in 2022 despite adding Barkley and throwing the ball less. BINGO This idea that Vrabel worked magic to get production out of RT is the biggest misconception of all time. Tannehill was working around the idiot's offensive philosophy. TerryBoats, IsntLifeFunny, BudsOilers, and 6 others 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OILERMAN Posted January 17 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 17 PK said on his latest podcast again that Vrabel pretty much made the personnel decisions in 2023, which were horrible BTW. Who the fuck watched Dillard play and thought he'd be OK at LT? Traded up for Levis? Have fun NE cenj, Starkiller, Justafan, and 4 others 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AussieTitanFan08 Posted January 17 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 17 (edited) 8 minutes ago, OILERMAN said: PK said on his latest podcast again that Vrabel pretty much made the personnel decisions in 2023, which were horrible BTW. Who the fuck watched Dillard play and thought he'd be OK at LT? Traded up for Levis? Have fun NE Someone had to take control as Carthon was either sleeping or concentrating on making sure the tunes in the room were pumping hard. Edited January 17 by AussieTitanFan08 BudsOilers, OILERMAN, smokeater, and 3 others 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, AussieTitanFan08 said: Someone had to take control as Carthon was either sleeping or concentrating on making sure the tunes in the room were pumping hard. To be fair if it wasn't clear he had roster control, it's easy to see how vrabel would steam roll him on decisions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieTitanFan08 Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Just now, oldschool said: To be fair if it wasn't clear he had roster control, it's easy to see how vrabel would steam roll him on decisions. Just as it seems Brinker steamrolled him at some point during the 2024 season. Mythos27, and Number9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 37 minutes ago, AussieTitanFan08 said: Just as it seems Brinker steamrolled him at some point during the 2024 season. No thats different. He was given a promotion and control after Vrabel was fired and couldn't do the job. He basically was pipped and someone else took over. Thats not the same as not having power and someone else like Vrabel taking the reigns. BudsOilers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Regardless of why Vrabel did it his choices were horrible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 7 hours ago, TerryBoats said: Tannehill had one of the lowest expected completion %s in the NFL in 2019, and the highest CPOE ever recorded. Tennessee didn't protect him from shit, and he in fact thrived when they put him in a position to fail (as the QB that he replaced did) He had a higher sack % because Miami ran a more proficient and quick passing WC offense, while Tennessee's was low-volume, with a much greater focus on slow-developing PA passes. This opened him up to more sack opportunities. But his time to throw was by far the greatest in his career. The success of the 2019 offense was dependant on a QB with elite accuracy, an OL which could hold up for the nearly 3 second required for the QB to execute the designed plays, and receivers who could catch the ball in traffic. When the latter two disappeared, so did Tannehill's and the offensive production and efficiency. Henry was one of the least significant factors. Just like Philadelphia's offense and QB play weren't better this year than they were in 2022 despite adding Barkley and throwing the ball less. Tannehill got sacked a veritable fuckton his whole career. The sacks are mostly on him. It's consistent. Stat nerds pretty much all agree. I don't disagree with the offensive structure here nor the fact that Tannehill would make a throw while waiting g to get hit by a truck. That still doesn't mean he was good at avoiding sacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 The % of sacks on Tannehill, at least in his Titans days, was not "mostly on him". You've falsely claimed this for years now. Allowed pressure assigned to the QB stats for qualified QB's: 2023 - 29th 2022 - 33rd 2021 - 39th 2020 - 36th 2019 - 23rd Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeater Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 Looking back now, this team has been rudderless for several years and just lucked into Tannehill for the success it had. I believe it took these growing pains for AAS to finally see what was needed, and going forward it looks like it will be a much more stable and competent organization. oldschool, OILERMAN, and Justafan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 42 minutes ago, titanruss said: Tannehill got sacked a veritable fuckton his whole career. The sacks are mostly on him. It's consistent. Stat nerds pretty much all agree. I don't disagree with the offensive structure here nor the fact that Tannehill would make a throw while waiting g to get hit by a truck. That still doesn't mean he was good at avoiding sacks. Fully disagree. He wasn't great at navigating the pocket, but that has zero to do with the fact his OL's were bottom 5 to 10 in pass blocking his entire career besides a couple seasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted January 17 Author Report Share Posted January 17 22 minutes ago, BudsOilers said: The % of sacks on Tannehill, at least in his Titans days, was not "mostly on him". You've falsely claimed this for years now. Allowed pressure assigned to the QB stats for qualified QB's: 2023 - 29th 2022 - 33rd 2021 - 39th 2020 - 36th 2019 - 23rd I assume approaching rank of 1 means higher % assigned to the QB ... so these ranks are good? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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