Wyatt: Carthon Fired

[scine09]

1 minute ago, rns90 said:

Pierce isn’t a good example ; he got hired because he did well as an interim coach after taking over for McDaniels.

 

One of these things that dooms these guys—black or white—is the networking or hiring of assistants.  If you have a limited Rolodex and hire first timers for the important spots (DC, OC,ST) , it will probably lead to disaster.

Mike Munchak is a prime example.

[BeedoeLaw]

Sigh.......so you can't use raw numbers to explain your argument. First you take the total number of white coaches fired after one season and divide it by the total number of white coaches. That will give you a percentage. Then you take the total number of minority coaches fired after one season and divide it by the total number of minority coaches. That will give you another percentage. Tell me which is the higher percentage.

Edited January 9, 2025 by BeedoeLaw

[scine09]

Calling Amy Adams Strunk or the Titans ownership in general racist is a tough sell seeing as they had three straight quarterbacks almost exclusively from the mid 80's until 2010 who were African American and an African American general manager.  You're barking up the wrong tree if this is where you're going.

[OzTitan]

I think it's probably more interesting to look at the number of coaches who weren't fired after their first season and try and highlight the ones who should have been from that group, based on the criteria used for the ones who were fired after one season.

[BeedoeLaw]

2 minutes ago, scine09 said:

Calling Amy Adams Strunk or the Titans ownership in general racist is a tough sell seeing as they had three straight quarterbacks almost exclusively from the mid 80's until 2010 who were African American and an African American general manager.  You're barking up the wrong tree if this is where you're going.

I never said they were racist. The poster I was responding to did.

[scine09]

Just now, BeedoeLaw said:

I never said they were racist. The poster I was responding to did.

I was speaking in general.  Not you specifically.  I didn't go through the thread to see who said what but I could see at least one person was calling them racist.

[animatormike]

6 minutes ago, BeedoeLaw said:

I never said they were racist. The poster I was responding to did.

Aren't message boards fun?

[Righteous]

8 minutes ago, BeedoeLaw said:

Sigh.......so you can't use raw numbers to explain your argument. First you take the total number of white coaches fired after one season and divide it by the total number of white coaches. That will give you a percentage. Then you take the total number of minority coaches fired after one season and divide it by the total number of minority coaches. That will give you another percentage. Tell me which is the higher percentage.

Seems you are trying to confirm a bias.   5 Black coaches were fired after 1 year.  3 never had experience past a position coach and were hired in the woke era.  They were not qualified.  And 2 were fired by the Houston Texans after horrendous seasons but replaced by the current coach who is Black.  Here is the real answer…the only Black coaches fired after 1 year happened after the stupid Rooney Rule was implemented and teams forced minority hires.  It is a stupid rule.  No one considered Ray Rhoades, Herm Edwards, Tony Dungee, Dennis Green as unqualified DEI hires.  They earned their way.  It’s tough for all coaches to become HC in the NFL.  No one deserves a hand up…it’s a merit based position.  

[BeedoeLaw]

1 minute ago, Righteous said:

Seems you are trying to confirm a bias.   5 Black coaches were fired after 1 year.  3 never had experience past a position coach and were hired in the woke era.  They were not qualified.  And 2 were fired by the Houston Texans after horrendous seasons but replaced by the current coach who is Black.  Here is the real answer…the only Black coaches fired after 1 year happened after the stupid Rooney Rule was implemented and teams forced minority hires.  It is a stupid rule.  No one considered Ray Rhoades, Herm Edwards, Tony Dungee, Dennis Green as unqualified DEI hires.  They earned their way.  It’s tough for all coaches to become HC in the NFL.  No one deserves a hand up…it’s a merit based position.  

I'm not trying to confirm anything, but the data..............

[BeedoeLaw]

@Righteous You say noone deserves a hand up, yet white coaches are given a hand up all the time. There have been plenty of terrible incompetent white coaches that were bad in their first year. Most often than not, they were given time to grow and get better. Hell......Cally is the perfect example. He gets a year to ponder his first year and fix the things he may have botched his first year. If you look at the percentages, white coaches with bad first years  get that second chance at a disproportionate rate.

[BeedoeLaw]

You are also comparing apples to oranges

 

Ray Rhoades 1st year- 10-6 coach of the year - Playoffs

 

Herm Edwards 1st year- 10-6 - Playoffs 

 

Tony Dungee 1st year- 10-6 - Playoffs 

 

Dennis Green 1st year- 11-5 - Playoffs 

 

Now find me a minority coach with Brian Callahan's 1st year record that got a second year to improve. I'm not saying that there is not one, but I guarantee that number is alot smaller than the white coaches that were given a second year to improve. 

[Righteous]

1 minute ago, BeedoeLaw said:

@Righteous You say noone deserves a hand up, yet white coaches are given a hand up all the time. There have been plenty of terrible incompetent white coaches that were bad in their first year. Most often than not, they were given time to grow and get better. Hell......Cally is the perfect example. He gets a year to ponder his first year and fix the things he may have botched his first year. If you look at the percentages, white coaches with bad first years  get that second chance at a disproportionate rate.

If you want to look at it that way.  My point is 3 out of the 5 HC fired after 1 season never held a position above position coach.  They were not qualified for the position.  The coaches who actually have proven something, be they White or Black or Hispanic, in the league are given a longer rope.  DEI has forced teams to fast track Black coaches, to the detriment of fans and teams.  The total record of all the Black coaches fired after 1 year is 17-66-1.  Not one coach won over 4 games in a year.  
 

There are plenty of us calling for Callahan’s head and deservedly so.  There are plenty of reasons for a coach to be fired and it may not have to do with race.  Let me ask you a question, if Callahan had won against Houston, do you think he would be back?  Well, Pierce and Mayo fucked up the assignment.

[BudsOilers]

In fairness, Dungy was 6-10 in his first year as a HC.  10-6 in his first year at Indy after coaching TB for 6 years.

 

Back to 1 and done coaches.....15 since 2009.  6 were black.  9 were white.

 

 

2024 - Mayo and Pierce

2023 - Reich

2022 - Hackett and Lovie Smith

2021 - David Culley and Urban Meyer

2019- Kitchens

2017 - Wilks

2016 - Kelly

2015 - Tomsula

2013 - Chudzinski

2012 - Mularkey and Crennel

2009 - Mora Jr.

[Righteous]

3 minutes ago, BeedoeLaw said:

You are also comparing apples to oranges

 

Ray Rhoades 1st year- 10-6 coach of the year - Playoffs

 

Herm Edwards 1st year- 10-6 - Playoffs 

 

Tony Dungee 1st year- 10-6 - Playoffs 

 

Dennis Green 1st year- 11-5 - Playoffs 

 

Now find me a minority coach with Brian Callahan's 1st year record that got a second year to improve. I'm not saying that there is not one, but I guarantee that number is alot smaller than the white coaches that were given a second year to improve. 

That’s the point.  I am not.  You are.  Of course, if you are not qualified to coach, you will have a losing record.  If you are qualified and a good coach, you will win.  Those coaches weren’t fired because they were Black, they were fired because they suck.  They were hired because they were Black.  Remove the stupid program that hires unqualified coaches because of race and you remove this silly argument.  
 

Losing coaches get fired in the NFL.  Callahan will be fired mid season if he doesn’t win.  Just like all coaches.  Show me the long term coaches with hirrible records their first season who has long tenure.  Patriots fired Rod Rust after 1 year and the Raiders fired Joe Bugel and cut the cord quickly with Lane Kiffin and Josh McDaniels.  To hold on to shitty coaches is silly.

[BeedoeLaw]

4 minutes ago, Righteous said:

If you want to look at it that way.  My point is 3 out of the 5 HC fired after 1 season never held a position above position coach.  They were not qualified for the position.  The coaches who actually have proven something, be they White or Black or Hispanic, in the league are given a longer rope.  DEI has forced teams to fast track Black coaches, to the detriment of fans and teams.  The total record of all the Black coaches fired after 1 year is 17-66-1.  Not one coach won over 4 games in a year.  
 

There are plenty of us calling for Callahan’s head and deservedly so.  There are plenty of reasons for a coach to be fired and it may not have to do with race.  Let me ask you a question, if Callahan had won against Houston, do you think he would be back?  Well, Pierce and Mayo fucked up the assignment.

It is my understanding that all the Rooney rule does is make sure minority coaches get in front of decision makers. It is up to them to nail the interview and show that they are the person for the job. It is widely known that the steelers were so impressed with Mike Tomlin they had to hire him. The fact that he was a minority had nothing to do with him being hired. Teams interview minority candidates all the time without hiring them. Noone puts a gun to their head. It is insulting for you to say that they got the job because of "racism".