Wyatt: Carthon Fired

[TheBukafax]

1 minute ago, BudsOilers said:

In fairness, Dungy was 6-10 in his first year as a HC.  10-6 in his first year at Indy after coaching TB for 6 years.

 

Back to 1 and done coaches.....15 since 2009.  6 were black.  9 were white.

 

 

2024 - Mayo and Pierce

2023 - Reich

2022 - Hackett and Lovie Smith

2021 - David Culley and Urban Meyer

2019- Kitchens

2017 - Wilks

2016 - Kelly

2015 - Tomsula

2013 - Chudzinski

2012 - Mularkey and Crennel

2009 - Mora Jr.

What was the ratio of hired to fired? I’m sure for the 9 fired it was probably multiples higher than the 6 fired to hired for the black coaches.

[OILERMAN]

29 minutes ago, BeedoeLaw said:

@Righteous You say noone deserves a hand up, yet white coaches are given a hand up all the time. There have been plenty of terrible incompetent white coaches that were bad in their first year. Most often than not, they were given time to grow and get better. Hell......Cally is the perfect example. He gets a year to ponder his first year and fix the things he may have botched his first year. If you look at the percentages, white coaches with bad first years  get that second chance at a disproportionate rate.

 

The whities also get rehired many more times after failing

[BeedoeLaw]

1 minute ago, Righteous said:

That’s the point.  I am not.  You are.  Of course, if you are not qualified to coach, you will have a losing record.  If you are qualified and a good coach, you will win.  Those coaches weren’t fired because they were Black, they were fired because they suck.  They were hired because they were Black.  Remove the stupid program that hires unqualified coaches because of race and you remove this silly argument.  
 

Losing coaches get fired in the NFL.  Callahan will be fired mid season if he doesn’t win.  Just like all coaches.  Show me the long term coaches with hirrible records their first season who has long tenure.  Patriots fired Rod Rust after 1 year and the Raiders fired Joe Bugel and cut the cord quickly with Lane Kiffin and Josh McDaniels.  To hold on to shitty coaches is silly.

Once again I never said they were fired because they were Black, you said they were hired because they were black.

[DallasTitan]

2 hours ago, BeedoeLaw said:

The funny thing is, incompetent white guys tend to hold their jobs much longer.

Amen

[Righteous]

4 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

In fairness, Dungy was 6-10 in his first year as a HC.  10-6 in his first year at Indy after coaching TB for 6 years.

 

Back to 1 and done coaches.....15 since 2009.  6 were black.  9 were white.

 

 

2024 - Mayo and Pierce

2023 - Reich

2022 - Hackett and Lovie Smith

2021 - David Culley and Urban Meyer

2019- Kitchens

2017 - Wilks

2016 - Kelly

2015 - Tomsula

2013 - Chudzinski

2012 - Mularkey and Crennel

2009 - Mora Jr.

Now let’s break it down a little more.

 

Lovie, Mora Jr., Crennel, Mularky and Reich were retreads.  Seems retreads bust out at the rates, as you expect immediate success.  So now you have 4 Blacks to 6 Whites.  3 out of the 4 Blacks never coached higher than position coach.  Does that normally happen for White coaches?  What made them qualified?

[Righteous]

7 minutes ago, BeedoeLaw said:

Once again I never said they were fired because they were Black, you said they were hired because they were black.

What qualified them to be head coaches?  Do LBer coaches normally get HC jobs????  Were teams jumping to hire Arthur Smith as a TE’s coach?  

[oldschool]

11 minutes ago, BudsOilers said:

In fairness, Dungy was 6-10 in his first year as a HC.  10-6 in his first year at Indy after coaching TB for 6 years.

 

Back to 1 and done coaches.....15 since 2009.  6 were black.  9 were white.

 

 

2024 - Mayo and Pierce

2023 - Reich

2022 - Hackett and Lovie Smith

2021 - David Culley and Urban Meyer

2019- Kitchens

2017 - Wilks

2016 - Kelly

2015 - Tomsula

2013 - Chudzinski

2012 - Mularkey and Crennel

2009 - Mora Jr.

 

6 is pretty high considering the pool to draw from is much lower however like I said earlier, the numbers are so small its hard to analyze the data and draw concrete conclusions from it. The perception is very real and that's what the NFL is fighting right now.

[BudsOilers]

Just now, TheBukafax said:

What was the ratio of hired to fired? I’m sure for the 9 fired it was probably multiples higher than the 6 fired to hired for the black coaches.

Given that the HC position is 80% - 90% made of white guys, I'm 100% the ratio of firing for a black coach is higher.  

 

It somewhat apples to oranges though in context.  I'm not sure you could look at any of these one and done's and say the HC in question was screwed.  And if Callahan had been one and done, it would have been on him moreso than anyone else.

 

Looking through that list of one and done's, the guys to me that were pure DEI hires setup to fail were the Texans' hires of Culley and Lovie back to back.  They very clearly hired Culley because nobody wanted the job and it was on heels of Bob McNair calling black players inmates....and Smith only got the job because the "one and done'd" Culley and wanted to hire Josh McCown and everyone went nuts on them......

 

Everyone else on the list I think was hired with the intent of it working and just simply failed to win.

[Callidus]

1 hour ago, scine09 said:

Mike Munchak is a prime example.

I still regret we ever did that. No offense to bill but he was the oline coach everyone makes bill out to be. 

 

Bill has brian doing some fun stuff with 6 lineman formations and the run game was good all year. But it took him like 12 games to get the pass blocking right. 

 

Munch was like eagles OL coach and was able to have above average to great play from almost everyone he plugged in. 

 

Tldr: i wish he was still around. 

[BudsOilers]

1 minute ago, oldschool said:

 

6 is pretty high considering the pool to draw from is much lower however like I said earlier, the numbers are so small its hard to analyze the data and draw concrete conclusions from it. The perception is very real and that's what the NFL is fighting right now.

Sure and I'm not arguing that.  And as anyone knows, when you hire a coach it's only a matter of time before they'll get fired.  You may have a handful of guys who leave on their own terms but 95% - even great coaches - get fired.

 

In Pierce's case, he and the white GM both got fired after one year.  Obvious conclusion is that the Raiders are targeting a HC with the juice to have his own GM with him.

[Righteous]

10 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

 

The whities also get rehired many more times after failing

Good coaches get rehired.  Lovie, Raheem, Denny Green, Herm Edwards, Todd Bowles, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, etc.  I said good coaches.  
 

DEI’s do not.  

[BeedoeLaw]

2 minutes ago, Righteous said:

Good coaches get rehired.  Lovie, Raheem, Denny Green, Herm Edwards, Todd Bowles, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell, etc.  I said good coaches.  
 

DEI’s do not.  

Why do you keep saying DEI? It is offensive. Noone is making any owner hire a black coach. They hire them because they were impressed with them in an interview. The Rooney rule is not DEI!

[BudsOilers]

You're not going to like this.....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule#:~:text=The Rooney Rule is a,in place in other industries.

 

Quote

The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs.

 

Initially, the program mandated interviews with underrepresented minority groups, aligning with modern Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) principles. However, since 2022, the program has shifted toward affirmative action, incorporating hiring quotas that prioritize minority candidates. [1][2][3] 

The first actual hiring quota was established before the 2022 season, mandating that at least one member of each team's offensive coaching staff must be either an ethnic minority or a woman.[4] The Rooney Rule was established in 2003, and variations of the rule are now in place in other industries.[

 

[Righteous]

Let’s be honest.  We were concerned (rightfully so) that Callahan had never called plays.  Arthur Smith and Matt LaFluer had to become OC’s first to become HC.  Yet, Pierce and Mayo, who have never called a play or installed a defense or managed a group more than 12 people, were both somehow qualified to be head coaches.  Come on.  Y’all need to come off the bullshit and be honest.  

[Righteous]

3 minutes ago, BeedoeLaw said:

Why do you keep saying DEI? It is offensive. Noone is making any owner hire a black coach. They hire them because they were impressed with them in an interview. The Rooney rule is not DEI!

Of course they are making owners hire Black people.  If not, why incentivize teams with 2 3rd round picks for grooming.  Sounds like a bribe to me.  You can’t love DEI and then get offended by being a DEI hire.  It’s why the shit is so stupid.  If it was offensive, you would protest the stupid policy.  It doesn’t work.  LA is burning down because of DEI and woke policies.  The shit is atrocious.