Derrick Henry is still an elite back.

[titanruss]

34 minutes ago, Justafan said:

That's exactly the argument. Read the title of the thread. 

 

As of Nov 11th for their mid season all-pro ratings:

 

"The Alabama product ranks in the top five at his position in pass-blocking (87.0, second highest), run grade (83.4, fifth highest) and receiving grade (81.8, second highest)"

 

That was elite when it was written.

[Mythos27]

23 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Look at the poster who started the thread. That's all you need to know. Of course Henry isn't elite like he used to be. Doesn't mean he isn't still a really good RB.

To me that's a little more complicated. Is he still producing at an elite level? No. Is he still elite relative to his peers? Yes. But his peers aren't as good as they used to be. His performance this year suggests there has been a drop-off. Based strictly off of the black and white data there is no getting around that. However, he's had a bad passing game and bad OL, two things that kill RB play and production. Would we be sitting here talking about how much he's falling off if he was on an offense with average to above average passing offense and OL? My feeling is no, but that's a hypothetical so who really knows for sure? What I do know is it would look better than what we're seeing. That goes for Spears too. 

[Justafan]

2 minutes ago, titanruss said:

 

Nuanced and complicated is never a copout. It's that amygdala thing again...

Never heard of complexity bias I take it? Not surprised. 

[Justafan]

10 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Yeah, Henry didn't carry the offense overall. Tannehill and the receivers did that. There were a few games I would say he carried is though; the playoff win vs NE, the playoff win vs the Chiefs his rookie year, and maybe a couple of others I can't really recall right now. As predicted, the people who gave Henry too much credit aided in poisoning the well against him for others. Some people are just sick of Derrick Henry.

I'm not sick of Derrick Henry. I have nothing but respect and he's a player I love to watch. I understand the sentiment though. 

 

You're definitely right that certain posters poisoned the well on both sides. It has ruined a lot of good conversations.  This one, for example, is pointless and was mostly started as a way for one poster to brag that he was smarter than another poster and then battle lines were drawn. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Justafan

[Justafan]

33 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Look at the poster who started the thread. That's all you need to know. Of course Henry isn't elite like he used to be. Doesn't mean he isn't still a really good RB.

This is a reasonable stance. If more posters could just say the obvious and move on, instead of arguing ad nauseum about nothing, we could have much more productive conversations. 

[charleytolar]

3 minutes ago, Justafan said:

This is a reasonable stance. If more posters could just say the obvious and move on, instead of arguing ad nauseum about nothing, we could have much more productive conversations. 

I think much of the conflict is that the posters who don't think he is "elite" anymore are suggesting he is "trash" instead.

 

He's still the 3rd leading rusher in the NFL after a 2 TD, 38-yard game against Miami. As someone suggestd, it's complicated...

[Justafan]

16 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

To me that's a little more complicated. Is he still producing at an elite level? No. Is he still elite relative to his peers? Yes. But his peers aren't as good as they used to be. His performance this year suggests there has been a drop-off. Based strictly off of the black and white data there is no getting around that. However, he's had a bad passing game and bad OL, two things that kill RB play and production. Would we be sitting here talking about how much he's falling off if he was on an offense with average to above average passing offense and OL? My feeling is no, but that's a hypothetical so who really knows for sure? What I do know is it would look better than what we're seeing. That goes for Spears too. 

Everyone here is essentially arguing about whether he's a top 5 back still or a top 10-15 back now. Sound familiar?

 

At the end of the day, if we can agree he's no longer 2000 yards DH, who cares where exactly he falls on the spectrum?

 

Easy answer, it doesn't. People just want to use every conceivable piece of info or stat as a weapon to bludgeon people they have a grudge with. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Justafan

[Mythos27]

25 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Everyone here is essentially arguing about whether he's a top 5 back still or a top 10-15 back now. Sound familiar?

 

At the end of the day, if we can agree he's no longer 2000 yards DH, who cares where exactly he falls on the spectrum?

 

Easy answer, it doesn't. People just want to use every conceivable piece of info or stat as a weapon to bludgeon people they have a grudge with. 

I agree that Henry and how good he is, should not be the center of conversation after every single game but I think you have to consider who is making it an issue after every game. It's a conversation because some can't get over the fact that he's still on the team and getting carries they believe belong to Spears now. Just read the game threads. It's the same people. The second the over the top criticism stops, the defenses won't be necessary. Henry sucked on Monday night. I wasn't exactly excited to defend him this week (I'm still not defending his play on Monday) yet here I am. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mythos27

[pat]

Watching the Dolphins it was hard to think Henry was in the same “elite” category as Mostert.

[Tex in a Can]

On 12/12/2023 at 10:21 AM, TitanPoke said:

Not even close. He's still averaging 4 yards a carry and has more than doubled the output of Eddie's last season in Dallas. Eddie was toast because of turf toe. Derrick didn't have a good game outside of the touchdowns but he's still producing at a high level. It's just clear that we shouldn't be leaning on him as much as we do and Tyjae should be at the very least splitting the carries.

 

Not talking statistics, watched them both with great interest, Derrick has stopped hitting the hole with the speed and strength he used to, just like Eddie in Dallas. 

[OILERMAN]

The Henry defenses even by the Henry apologists are even petering out.

 

When the pea brain started this thread there were a lot of "likes" about how he was elite.

 

 

That seems to be fading away like Tomato can's explosion

[OILERMAN]

4 hours ago, pat said:

Watching the Dolphins it was hard to think Henry was in the same “elite” category as Mostert.

 

He was seriously the 4th best RB on the field Monday night

[rns90]

45 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

 

He was seriously the 4th best RB on the field Monday night

When was the last time he played well against a top rated rush defense?  Was Atlanta top 10 going into that game?

[TitanPoke]

1 hour ago, OILERMAN said:

 

He was seriously the 4th best RB on the field Monday night

He was also coming off a possible concussion. I'm interested to see how he does against Houston who he usually demolishes twice a year.

[OILERMAN]

7 hours ago, rns90 said:

When was the last time he played well against a top rated rush defense?  Was Atlanta top 10 going into that game?

 

Vrabel's idea of running Henry into stacked boxes has been pretty much a failure against top teams since the 2019 playoff run. Especially in the playoffs.

 

But this year's Tomato Can version is pretty much only effective when there are wide open lanes for Henry to run through, like the Colts game. Or the 63 yard run off the trick play where he was untouched(and ran down).

 

He only has 4 runs over 20 yards, this year they are all barely over 20 aside from the trick play for 63. In 2020 he had 16, those were mostly much longer.

 

He gets tackled easily and his break away speed is gone.

 

I'm not being harsh and this isn't hyperbole. He's a shell of what he was.