TF_Titan Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Rogue said: There's been several countries suddenly giving Ukraine military aid. Even the US has sent more and in legislative talks to send a sizable package in even more military and humanitarian aid. Perhaps there was previous foreign aid given just not very public about it? I'm just left wondering why? Was Western intelligence similar to Russian intelligence that, seemingly, Ukraine would fall or roll over? Was there a reluctance to openly commit prior to an actual invasion as to not rock the boat? Was there a level of denial to the degree they just never felt it would actually happen? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see it, as is Ukraine I imagine. I just find my curiosity piqued as to the sequence of events. I'm sure there was some degree of questionability as to intelligence going on, but the US used the word imminent for a while now. My guess is they thought that if they started providing military aid before an actual invasion it would be too provocative and eliminate any chance of a peaceful resolution. I think it was a miscalculation and the reality was probably the exact opposite...that sending in significant military aid prior to the invasion was the only thing that had a chance to prevented it. Rogue, and ChesterCopperpot1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rogue said: There's been several countries suddenly giving Ukraine military aid. Even the US has sent more and in legislative talks to send a sizable package in even more military and humanitarian aid. Perhaps there was previous foreign aid given just not very public about it? I'm just left wondering why? Was Western intelligence similar to Russian intelligence that, seemingly, Ukraine would fall or roll over? Was there a reluctance to openly commit prior to an actual invasion as to not rock the boat? Was there a level of denial to the degree they just never felt it would actually happen? Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see it, as is Ukraine I imagine. I just find my curiosity piqued as to the sequence of events. I'm sure there was some degree of questionability as to intelligence going on, but the US used the word imminent for a while now. Countries have been sending military aid. It's a large part of the reason why they've lasted this long. Remember Trump withheld military aid to try and get Zelensky to manufacture dirt on Biden. Countries are just sending more. Edited February 27, 2022 by reo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 17 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Well, they generally don't and their actual purpose is defense of NATO, not humanitarian intervention. In this case though, NATO is not going to be the ones who escalate this to a full blown NATO-Russia war. I think there's an obvious difference in the scope of the conflict NATO would be igniting with direct intervention here compared to what they did in Kosovo. Russia and China didn't want them to intervene in Kosovo either, but engaging here is a completely different ball game. It's not even the same damn sport! Based on what we've seen over the last 4 days NATO has nothing to fear from Russia aside from nukes. ChemEngr79, and ChesterCopperpot1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, oldschool said: Based on what we've seen over the last 4 days NATO has nothing to fear from Russia aside from nukes. I've debated people about Russia's military "might" it always baffled me that people think Russia is this supreme military beast. They don't have the money or the people to really be a threat. I feel the exact same about China Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, oldschool said: Based on what we've seen over the last 4 days NATO has nothing to fear from Russia aside from nukes. Nukes are a pretty big exception. My point is that I really don't think NATO is going to be the ones to escalate this to a NATO-Russia war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, reo said: Countries have been sending military aid. It's a large part of the reason why they've lasted this long. Remember Trump withheld military aid to try and get Zelensky to provide dirt on Biden. Countries are just sending more. I don't recall seeing much outside of US sending aid prior to this weekend. Like I said, it could have been done but not very public about. It just seems a lot is now being sent in an openly public fashion. Edited February 27, 2022 by Rogue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitansFan777 Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, headhunter said: I've debated people about Russia's military "might" it always baffled me that people think Russia is this supreme military beast. They don't have the money or the people to really be a threat. I feel the exact same about China The Russian might is a relic of the Cold War that is being shown for what it is. Likewise, the stupid image of Putin being a mythical god-tier leader who is smarter than everyone and is playing 500-dimensional chess is hopefully going down the same path. He’s just a powerful thug in an expensive suit at the end of the day. Edited February 27, 2022 by TitansFan777 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rogue said: I don't recall seeing much outside of US sending aid. Like I said, it could have been done but not very public about. It just seems a lot is now being sent in an openly public fashion. Odds are no one gave as much as the US. That's typically the case but it just wasn't a story until now so no one talked about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Everyone needs to slow their roll on Ukraine winning. They are putting up more resistance than anyone expected but they are outmatched in sheer numbers and fire power. Russia will almost assuredly win the short term amd lose long term over Ukraine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, headhunter said: I've debated people about Russia's military "might" it always baffled me that people think Russia is this supreme military beast. They don't have the money or the people to really be a threat. I feel the exact same about China You are wrong. Russia committed 3% of their forces to the Ukraine invasion. They aren't as tactical or precise as the United States Armed Forces but in a one on one conflict they would likely win against anyone other than the U.S and China. China also has massive morale and technology advantages over everyone but the United States. Now back to the original point, Russia can't stand against NATO as a whole by itself which is why they picked a fight with Ukraine. kgsTitan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Nukes are a pretty big exception. My point is that I really don't think NATO is going to be the ones to escalate this to a NATO-Russia war. Rationale Putin wants no part of NATO, now crazy Putin with diminished mental faculties might be different. Titans279 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, oldschool said: You are wrong. Russia committed 3% of their forces to the Ukraine invasion. They aren't as tactical or precise as the United States Armed Forces but in a one on one conflict they would likely win against anyone other than the U.S and China. China also has massive morale and technology advantages over everyone but the United States. Now back to the original point, Russia can't stand against NATO as a whole by itself which is why they picked a fight with Ukraine. Im talking about Russia or China facing us. I'm not scares of them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, headhunter said: Im talking about Russia or China facing us. I'm not scares of them You should be especially the combination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, headhunter said: Im talking about Russia or China facing us. I'm not scares of them You should be. Hundreds of thousands would die on both sides and nukes could be in play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, oldschool said: You should be. Hundreds of thousands would die on both sides and nukes could be in play. I dunno know if China wants to bite the that feeds them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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