IsntLifeFunny Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, Titans279 said: I don't think NATO is afraid of their ability to win a conventional war with Russia, but I think you're wrong in a very important way. What NATO is afraid of, and they should be, is the threat of nuclear bombs going off. People are way downplaying how much everyone wants to avoid nuclear conflicts. Creating "safe zones" or calling for no fly zones is basically the same as just getting directly involved. I don't think it's going to happen. They’re about to start sending fighter jets and training pilots. I would think that will be the full extent of NATO involvement unless Russia does some truly horrific shit to the cities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 19 minutes ago, TF_Titan said: This is the most important aspect of this entire conflict. Russia is not the big threat. But China is. If the rest of the world rolls over and cedes Ukraine to Russian then it almost assuredly seals Taiwan's fate...and ours along with it honestly. The scary thing is we were prepared to do exactly that (e.g. offering to help Zelenskyy escape instead if offering him military support) until we saw that Ukraine was having success. Xi Jinping knows his legacy is tied to Taiwan. He's just looking for the right opportunity to move. We absolutely need to use Ukraine to send him a message. A part of me thinks our offer to evacuate Zelinsky was a great move to have him be viewed rightly as a hero. They knew he was never leaving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 19 minutes ago, TF_Titan said: This is the most important aspect of this entire conflict. Russia is not the big threat. But China is. If the rest of the world rolls over and cedes Ukraine to Russian then it almost assuredly seals Taiwan's fate...and ours along with it honestly. The scary thing is we were prepared to do exactly that (e.g. offering to help Zelenskyy escape instead if offering him military support) until we saw that Ukraine was having success. Xi Jinping knows his legacy is tied to Taiwan. He's just looking for the right opportunity to move. We absolutely need to use Ukraine to send him a message. Offering to help Zelensky escape wasn't necessarily about ceding Ukraine to Russia. It was about keeping the government intact and functioning if Kyiv falls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, headhunter said: Yep. Nobody wins setting of a Nuke. Only a desperate country like Iran or North Korea are more likely to launch one over Russia and China. They're not launching them either. They just use them as negotiation tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, pat said: Seriously. What good shit are you talking about? Sift through the propaganda. They could easily overwhelm Ukraine with air superiority and their newer tech. They are sending in old ass tanks and Conscripts for the most part. They fucked up and thought they could skimp on the attack force. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, reo said: Offering to help Zelensky escape wasn't necessarily about ceding Ukraine to Russia. It was about keeping the government intact and functioning if Kyiv falls. Or it was about Zelensky creating the narrative that he had a choice, and choose to make a stand, to excellent effect. IsntLifeFunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just now, oldschool said: Sift through the propaganda. They could easily overwhelm Ukraine with air superiority and their newer tech. They are sending in old ass tanks and Conscripts for the most part. They fucked up and thought they could skimp on the attack force. I assumed the same at the start of the invasion. But at this point it's clear Russia planned an all out war to take Kyiv. So why allow UKR to continue to fly sorties? Unless Russia doesn't have the capability to deny access? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, pat said: I assumed the same at the start of the invasion. But at this point it's clear Russia planned an all out war to take Kyiv. So why allow UKR to continue to fly sorties? Unless Russia doesn't have the capability to deny access? No they didn't. They committed 3% of their total armed forces and most of that were recently conscripted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Russia wanted to avoid destroying Ukraine and killing large amounts of people. It puts them at a disadvantage for sure IsntLifeFunny, and oldschool 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 There was also concern other countries/banks wouldn’t commit to monetary sanctions and that has happened massively. reo, and Starkiller 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, pat said: I assumed the same at the start of the invasion. But at this point it's clear Russia planned an all out war to take Kyiv. So why allow UKR to continue to fly sorties? Unless Russia doesn't have the capability to deny access? Su-35 and MiG-35 are their best fighter jets iirc and the Su-57 is their latest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, reo said: China wants money and better trade deals. They use their military to influence countries to give them those better deals whenever possible. They don't have any inherent animosity towards America like Russia does. China may not be as meatheaded with their animosity as Russia is, but that doesn't mean there isn't animus. Being more calculating and conniving is the better long play. If they saw an advantage to having the US being swept completely out of the way and they had the means to make it happen I don't doubt they'd do it. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but judging by their government and its human rights violations maybe not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Sidenote... in the most Russian thing ever the Tu-22 once used vodka as a coolant and as part of the AC iirc. NashvilleNinja, IsntLifeFunny, Starkiller, and 1 other 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 I think this talks about it but I don't have time atm to confirm its the right vid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, oldschool said: Nah eeyore, the super powers all know what using Nuclear bombs against each other means. The threat of nuclear weapons being used is almost 100% with the North Koreas and Irans of the world or even terrorist organizations. I think you're pretty off the mark if you think the risk of nuclear bombs being dropped doesn't effect the calculus here. If Russia didn't have nukes none of this would even be happening and we certainly wouldn't be that afraid of getting involved militarily. Edited February 27, 2022 by Titans279 oldschool, and IsntLifeFunny 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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