2 great PFF articles on Isabella & JJAW sum up exactly what we're missing at WR

[Mythos27]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:00 AM, ctm said:

The argument for JJAW isn't based on snap count.  It's matchup and situational. 

 

Taylor's speed is neutralized in the red zone.  He's not that effective with contested catches.

 

JJAW is a former basketball player who excels at boxing out the defender and makes the contested catch with ease.  He's a guy who can turn FGs into TDs.

 

Obviously, JJAW offers a lot more than that, but that is his main advantage.  He brings a different skill set than Taylor.  To put it another way, JJAW, Humphrey and Taylor all play significant snaps, depending on situation and matchup.

 

 

I like JJAW as a prospect but he'd go to waste here for the same reason Mike Williams would have; Mariota doesn't throw that 50/50 ball enough to maximize his value. 

[Justafan]

Just now, Mythos27 said:

I like JJAW as a prospect but he'd go to waste here for the same reason Mike Williams would have; Mariota doesn't throw that 50/50 ball enough to maximize his value. 

He would get limited snaps but he would have a lot of value in the Redzone imo, and is one of the few WRs who could be taken later and contribute early.  

[ctm]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

I like JJAW as a prospect but he'd go to waste here for the same reason Mike Williams would have; Mariota doesn't throw that 50/50 ball enough to maximize his value. 

Is that because of Mariota  or because he doesn't have a wide receiver who excels at it?  We don't know until a guy like JJAW is on the field with him.

 

 

[OILERMAN]

12 minutes ago, Justafan said:

With the addition of Humphries, do Taylor's snaps go up or down?  Davis isn't coming off the field.  Humphries is going to be on the field whenever they have 3WR sets and he'll probably get a few snaps on the outside as well (he played 20% of his snaps on the outside last year).  Taylor still played 15% of his snaps in the slot. 

There is no doubt Humphries is going to be a much bigger part of the passing game, that's not even in question. 

 

Taylor's role is going to be to exploit single coverage for big plays when teams are geared to stop Henry and to make teams pay for focusing on Davis and/or Walker. 

 

That role is important but it's not going to get a lot of targets but ideally would produce a lot of big plays 

[TerryBoats]

1 hour ago, ctm said:

Is that because of Mariota  or because he doesn't have a wide receiver who excels at it?  We don't know until a guy like JJAW is on the field with him.

 

 

Look at Mariota's TD numbers during the past two years and you'll know the answer to that.

 

And Taylor could be a better red zone threat than people realize.  It's why watching what these guys do in college and projecting it to our offense is useless.  He was a TD juggernaut in college.  Getting separation in short areas is one of his biggest strengths.  You see several instances of that in this link

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/13/14262756/taywan-taylor-is-a-small-school-stud-with-big-time-talent

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by abc2330

[Justafan]

1 minute ago, OILERMAN said:

There is no doubt Humphries is going to be a much bigger part of the passing game, that's not even in question. 

 

Taylor's role is going to be to exploit single coverage for big plays when teams are geared to stop Henry and to make teams pay for focusing on Davis and/or Walker. 

 

That role is important but it's not going to get a lot of targets but ideally would produce a lot of big plays 

Absolutely.  And for that role, Taylor is fine and maybe even good. That doesn't make him a good WR, it makes him a niche WR, which is fine. 

[OILERMAN]

5 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Absolutely.  And for that role, Taylor is fine and maybe even good. That doesn't make him a good WR, it makes him a niche WR, which is fine. 

He could still develop into a good WR though

[Justafan]

1 minute ago, OILERMAN said:

He could still develop into a good WR though

I'm not arguing that at all.  I have two complaints.  One is the narrative that Taylor was a good WR last year and simply held back by poor QB play.  That's simply not true.  He was ok but he was NOT good regardless of what you might think about the QB play.  My second complaint is how far he still has to go.  He's a body catcher, he still struggles to run strong routes, and clearly, he has issues with his timing which is ONE of the reasons it's hard for Mariota to find him unless it's on one of those straight line routes where it doesn't matter so much.  

 

Right now, he's a niche guy who is the 4-5th top target on a run first team.  That's fine but that's all he is.  He could absolutely take a big step.  Lots of WRs take giant steps in their third season and he has the physical tools to be really good if he does.  Won't argue that.  I will argue stupid narratives and next-gen stats that try to push a false narrative based on superfluous bs though.  

[IsntLifeFunny]

2 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Taylor SHOULD be a slot WR. Everything about his scouting reports and athletic profile screams slot. I know we don't currently use him there but I've always wondered why. His outlook as a legitimate outside WR is very limited. I know he was good outside in college but producing consistently on the outside in the NFL is a whole different beast.

He’s best suited as the 4th as a stretch slot. 

 

20 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

There is no doubt Humphries is going to be a much bigger part of the passing game, that's not even in question. 

 

Taylor's role is going to be to exploit single coverage for big plays when teams are geared to stop Henry and to make teams pay for focusing on Davis and/or Walker. 

 

That role is important but it's not going to get a lot of targets but ideally would produce a lot of big plays 

I’m going to be very surprised if they center the offense around being smash mouth. The entire philosophy is to be multiple and adapt depending on the opponent. We did that well against good offenses and terribly against solid defenses. 

 

I simply cant see a scenario they paid Humphries that kind of money to not be in the base package in most games. He is a pure slot guy. 

[OILERMAN]

17 minutes ago, Justafan said:

I'm not arguing that at all.  I have two complaints.  One is the narrative that Taylor was a good WR last year and simply held back by poor QB play.  That's simply not true.  He was ok but he was NOT good regardless of what you might think about the QB play. 

Without going into detail about the quality of QB play, Taylor was in a terrible position for a WR. 

 

The Titans ran the ball a ton, they ran the ball a ton on 1st down. WRs are measured on volume. This offense threw the ball less than anyone. Kendall Wright is a spare, he cracked a 1000 yards because he had 139 targets. Wright caught a ton of short passes and his yds per catch was pitiful, Curtis Duncan was the same in the run and shoot. 

 

Taylor is also best suited for down field throws off of playaction on possible run downs. It's not an accident his play went up when Henry's did. 

 

Taylor is best suited for an Alvin Harper role, Harper's best season he had 46 catches and only did better than Taylor's 37 catches once. 

[Justafan]

6 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

Without going into detail about the quality of QB play, Taylor was in a terrible position for a WR. 

 

The Titans ran the ball a ton, they ran the ball a ton on 1st down. WRs are measured on volume. This offense threw the ball less than anyone. Kendall Wright is a spare, he cracked a 1000 yards because he had 139 targets. Wright caught a ton of short passes and his yds per catch was pitiful, Curtis Duncan was the same in the run and shoot. 

 

Taylor is also best suited for down field throws off of playaction on possible run downs. It's not an accident his play went up when Henry's did. 

 

Taylor is best suited for an Alvin Harper role, Harper's best season he had 46 catches and only did better than Taylor's 37 catches once. 

Yea, that all seems reasonable to me.  Wright was another WR that posters pumped up but he was probably about as good as Taylor is now, and maybe even worse (terrible comparison though with different skillsets).  He should never have been a top target with 139 targets.

 

I agree with the rest of your assessment though I would add that Taylor has considerable upside as mentioned.  He could be more than just a play action downfield guy but only if he gets better at some of the things I mentioned before.  

 

Honestly had to go look up Alvin Harper.  He played a while ago and I didn't remember very much about him.  Having said that, he was 6'4 and 218lbs so I'm not sure that's the best comparison even if the skill sets are similar.  

[TitanDuckFan]

3 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

I like JJAW as a prospect but he'd go to waste here for the same reason Mike Williams would have; Mariota doesn't throw that 50/50 ball enough to maximize his value. 

He threw the 50/50 ball a lot more when he had Rishard on the other end.  With his size, JJ could be that and more, especially in the RZ. 

JJ is already more accomplished in the area of body positioning and physicality than either Sharpe or Taylor, and no CB is going to be stupid enough to try to jam him or bump off his route once he gets acclimated to the league.

He may not be the next Mike Evans, but he's way more physical than any WR on the Titans' roster currently.

[Mythos27]

2 hours ago, ctm said:

Is that because of Mariota  or because he doesn't have a wide receiver who excels at it?  We don't know until a guy like JJAW is on the field with him.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said:

He threw the 50/50 ball a lot more when he had Rishard on the other end.  With his size, JJ could be that and more, especially in the RZ. 

JJ is already more accomplished in the area of body positioning and physicality than either Sharpe or Taylor, and no CB is going to be stupid enough to try to jam him or bump off his route once he gets acclimated to the league.

He may not be the next Mike Evans, but he's way more physical than any WR on the Titans' roster currently.

It's because of Mariota IMO. Corey Davis was IMO nearly as good as JJAW at catching 50/50 bals and has shown the ability to do it at the NFL level many times yet Mariota hasn't gone to that well nearly often enough IMO. It isn't that I think Marcus is incapable of it but rather that he's too risk averse to do it often enough to validate the drafting of a guys whose #1 overall skill is jump balls and doesn't offer as much as a WR like Davis everywhere else on the field. Obviously I don't want the ball forced to Taylor. No one with any sense wants that.

[TitanDuckFan]

7 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

 

It's because of Mariota IMO. Corey Davis was IMO nearly as good as JJAW at catching 50/50 bals and has shown the ability to do it at the NFL level many times yet Mariota hasn't gone to that well nearly often enough IMO. It isn't that I think Marcus is incapable of it but rather that he's too risk averse to do it often enough to validate the drafting of a guys whose #1 overall skill is jump balls and doesn't offer as much as a WR like Davis everywhere else on the field. Obviously I don't want the ball forced to Taylor. No one with any sense wants that.

But last season there was Corey and little else in terms of physicality.  He was often double and triple-teamed, and physicality isn't enough when there's bodies stacked around him.

Taylor might draw a little help over the top due to his speed but an accomplished CB or FS is usually enough to shut him down in a 1on1 situ, as long as they have position.  That's where a guy like JJ seems to excel.

[Mythos27]

5 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said:

But last season there was Corey and little else in terms of physicality.  He was often double and triple-teamed, and physicality isn't enough when there's bodies stacked around him.

Taylor might draw a little help over the top due to his speed but an accomplished CB or FS is usually enough to shut him down in a 1on1 situ, as long as they have position.  That's where a guy like JJ seems to excel.

That's fair but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Mariota has never really been a jump ball thrower. Even back at Oregon his game has always been about finding open guys and making safer passes. If we draft JJAW and he starts slinging 50/50 balls left and right that would certainly be different than what we've seen from him so far.