Around the NFL - Training Camp Discussion

[Alcibiades]

people say all sorts of stuff during draft times. Once Styles posted at the combine, people thought "Get that guy!". Happens every year. I wanted Tate, and I'm still glad we got him. Obviously, if Bailey had been there...but he wasn't. I think a lot of people around here still think we would have drafted Love if he fell to us. I'm not convinced, but I was prepped for it, since so many mocks had that happening. 

 

BTW, I don't see a lot about the Seahawk who ended his season in our joint practice. BOBO or BOLOBO or something like that? 

[NashvilleNinja]

11 minutes ago, Alcibiades said:

people say all sorts of stuff during draft times. Once Styles posted at the combine, people thought "Get that guy!". Happens every year. I wanted Tate, and I'm still glad we got him. Obviously, if Bailey had been there...but he wasn't. I think a lot of people around here still think we would have drafted Love if he fell to us. I'm not convinced, but I was prepped for it, since so many mocks had that happening. 

 

BTW, I don't see a lot about the Seahawk who ended his season in our joint practice. BOBO or BOLOBO or something like that? 

 

@Mythos27

 

I'm certain Tate was the guy regardless if Love was there or not. The fact the Cardinals, a traditionally bad/irrelevant team, took him at 3 instead of drafting other and more pressing needs, is a good indication of Love being a bad choice that high. Bad teams gonna bad.

 

You could make a much stronger argument for Love going to us than you ever could the Cardinals, but even so Cam needed help at receiver much more than he needed help at RB. And as it may turn out Singleton could wind up being at least 70-80% as good as Love and drafted 4 rounds later.

 

I think the only guy they would have taken over Tate was Bailey. I loved both Bailey and Bain and defense wins championshios. But you're not even getting to the playoffs if you can't score points. So I'm not disappointed at all that Bailey was gone.

 

I think it all worked out how it should have. How good Tate will be remains to be seen but he's got all the traits and tools to turn himself into That Guy.

[Starkiller]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

I gotta stop checking out during the draft season. You mean a significantportion of the board wanted to spend #4 overall on a LB and a RB. Jesus christ. What happened here?

You mean the guys generally considered to be the 2 best players in the draft? Yeah, lots of people wanted that. 

[Mythos27]

8 minutes ago, NashvilleNinja said:

 

@Mythos27

 

I'm certain Tate was the guy regardless if Love was there or not. The fact the Cardinals, a traditionally bad/irrelevant team, took him at 3 instead of drafting other and more pressing needs, is a good indication of Love being a bad choice that high. Bad teams gonna bad.

 

You could make a much stronger argument for Love going to us than you ever could the Cardinals, but even so Cam needed help at receiver much more than he needed help at RB. And as it may turn out Singleton could wind up being at least 70-80% as good as Love and drafted 4 rounds later.

 

I think the only guy they would have taken over Tate was Bailey. I loved both Bailey and Bain and defense wins championshios. But you're not even getting to the playoffs if you can't score points. So I'm not disappointed at all that Bailey was gone.

 

I think it all worked out how it should have. How good Tate will be remains to be seen but he's got all the traits and tools to turn himself into That Guy.

I mean, I definitely like Love and he's certainly a first round talent but you just don't take a back that high. I agree that Bailey was the other guy worthy of the pick. If we're all being real, Tate was a bit of a reach at #4 but with our situation and the Tate's pedigree it's a fine reach to make. 

 

[Mythos27]

8 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

You mean the guys generally considered to be the 2 best players in the draft? Yeah, lots of people wanted that. 

The positional value of these two particular positions make it close to non-starter. The juice simply isn't wortht he squeeze. We had a first ballot HOF runningback and couldn't move the damn ball if the passing game wasn't clickinng.We should know this lesson better than anyone. 

[NashvilleNinja]

10 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I mean, I definitely like Love and he's certainly a first round talent but you just don't take a back that high. I agree that Bailey was the other guy worthy of the pick. If we're all being real, Tate was a bit of a reach at #4 but with our situation and the Tate's pedigree it's a fine reach to make. 

 

 

I don't think he was a reach at all. If Jeremiah Smith and Cam Coleman were in this class he's possibly the 3rd receiver taken, but he was by everyone's metrics the best WR in this class. Tyson may be more "dynamic" (i.e. flashy) but he's also a walking weekly designation. Or monthly at this point.

 

I got some scoffs when I said Tate reminded me of AJ Green, but other than a slight size difference and the fact Green was a bit more violent in some of his movements there are a lot of similarities in their game, imo. And fwiw, both were taken 4th overall. You could make the argument Julio should have gone before Green in that draft, but there was no Julio in this draft. Only a Green.

[Starkiller]

48 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

The positional value of these two particular positions make it close to non-starter. The juice simply isn't wortht he squeeze. We had a first ballot HOF runningback and couldn't move the damn ball if the passing game wasn't clickinng.We should know this lesson better than anyone. 

We had a run-first RB who wasn’t much of a threat in the passing game. The math is different for a 3 down back who is a major threat as a receiver as well as a runner.

 

And edge rushers are very highly valued, whether that was Bailey or Reese. 

[rns90]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

The positional value of these two particular positions make it close to non-starter. The juice simply isn't wortht he squeeze. We had a first ballot HOF runningback and couldn't move the damn ball if the passing game wasn't clickinng.We should know this lesson better than anyone. 

If you even take positional value into consideration, even slightly , then a RB at 3 isn’t even on the table, especially one that with that rookie contract makes him a top 5 paid RB.

 

I’d say outside of Bailey, that the Titans may have considered was Reese BUT he’s not an every down edge guy.  Made Tate the obvious and easy choice 

 

 

[TheChosenTitan]

Watson looked terrible 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:40 PM by TheChosenTitan

[Callidus]

2 hours ago, Alcibiades said:

people say all sorts of stuff during draft times. Once Styles posted at the combine, people thought "Get that guy!". Happens every year. I wanted Tate...

Could have used an extra voice durring the offseason so I didn't look quite so crazy lol. 

[Callidus]

15 minutes ago, TheChosenTitan said:

Watson looked terrible 

 

 

So no change in the last 3-4 years. 

[Callidus]

2 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

I mean, I definitely like Love and he's certainly a first round talent but you just don't take a back that high. I agree that Bailey was the other guy worthy of the pick. If we're all being real, Tate was a bit of a reach at #4 but with our situation and the Tate's pedigree it's a fine reach to make. 

 

[Face]

2 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

The positional value of these two particular positions make it close to non-starter. The juice simply isn't wortht he squeeze. We had a first ballot HOF runningback and couldn't move the damn ball if the passing game wasn't clickinng.We should know this lesson better than anyone. 

Obviously a WLB who can cover is important in a defense like Saleh’s but to me the only way SS would be worth a high pick is if you’re going to send him after the QB a lot, sortve like the NYG have planned with Reese. Apparently Styles was actually just as good as Reese when rushing the QB, both blitzing & when occasionally used off the edge. Frankly I feel like Ohio State did Styles a disservice using him off the ball. Hes such a freakish athlete if drafted I’d almost want to convert him to an edge.  Hes such an incredible athlete it’s almost a waste using him as a 4-3 OLB. 

[Mythos27]

2 hours ago, NashvilleNinja said:

 

I don't think he was a reach at all. If Jeremiah Smith and Cam Coleman were in this class he's possibly the 3rd receiver taken, but he was by everyone's metrics the best WR in this class. Tyson may be more "dynamic" (i.e. flashy) but he's also a walking weekly designation. Or monthly at this point.

 

I got some scoffs when I said Tate reminded me of AJ Green, but other than a slight size difference and the fact Green was a bit more violent in some of his movements there are a lot of similarities in their game, imo. And fwiw, both were taken 4th overall. You could make the argument Julio should have gone before Green in that draft, but there was no Julio in this draft. Only a Green.

I'm with most people in that if I'm going to spend a top 5 pick on receiver, I want elite size/speed. Tate is more of a technician which is fine and this doesn't mean he can't be great a la D-Hop but it's more of what you ideally want when picking that high. I still like the pick and think it was the best thing for us. 

[Mythos27]

2 hours ago, Starkiller said:

We had a run-first RB who wasn’t much of a threat in the passing game. The math is different for a 3 down back who is a major threat as a receiver as well as a runner.

 

And edge rushers are very highly valued, whether that was Bailey or Reese. 

I don't see a RB's impact on the passing game making up too much ground. I feel that by and large unless you're drafting a CMC type AND plan to use him as such it's not too different from drafting a run first RB. I believe that targets are best going to receivers and a guy being the #5 option is the passing games isn't as valuable as most seem to think. EDGE rushers are indeed valuable which is why Bailey would've been a great pick. Reese on the other hand seemed like a tweener and with reports of him primarily playing ILB that's just not as valuable to me. Now maybe he turns out to be Micha Parsons but personally, I don't like making that big a projection with a top 5 pick.