Titans Offseason Discussion Thread

[headhunter]

Femi reminds me of Akeem Ayers. Maybe a little more aggression version

[titanruss]

1 hour ago, NashvilleNinja said:

 

He's a projection pick but I think that may have been more the vision for him. Saleh is the coach to get that out of him more than Dennard Wilson was with the hybrid non-sense.

 

 

He's pretty much the same size as Jermaine Johnson minus a couple inches. "Tweener" is how Wilson saw him and wanted to use him, as a 3-4 edge. That's not what Saleh wants to do with him. Maybe he won't pan out, but that's my point. We don't know enough yet to be hopeful or hopeless.

 

 

Idk yet. That's what we'll find out, assuming he can stay healthy and available. I'd say that's the bigger worry right now than his actual skillset.

I don't care about his size / traits. I care about his ability to actually play the game. His exciting measurables are the same as like 10-15 guys every year, of which only a couple  become worthy of a top 75 pick. 
 

He was asked to change positions because he was losing reps at LB as he wasn't good enough... they had a hole at Edge, so he moved spots. He finished the season OK getting sacks against big school names but bad teams. 
 

 Can he be good? Who knows. There was like 7-8 DEs after him that were as good or better in the time they played. But he was probably the biggest project of alllll the DEs that draft.  
 

I think a lot of us just have big issues with taking projects at any position before like the 4th round. If you go by PFRs various actual value metrics, there was anywhere from 85-100 guys more productive per play that were drafted after Femi. We could have gotten actual starters on the OL who have much higher hit rates.  
 

I haven't given up on Femi, he could be great and develop. He plays hard and has good energy. But anything at all from him is more than can be expected. 

[NashvilleNinja]

We don’t know yet...

 

 

 

[Callidus]

9 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

To me, a high level pass rusher is a guy that gets consistent pressure on the on QB and typically racks up anywhere from 8-10 sacks a year. For context, I think Harold Landry was probably the bottom range of what I would consider a high level pass rusher (many would disagree that he should be considered one at all) and I don't think Femi will even be nearly that good because Landry was by far a more natural, developed pass rusher coming out of BC. 

He likely never ends up being a 10sack guy, he may have 10 sacks once or twice but 95% of edge guys drafted after the top 40 dont do that on the regular. 

 

If you get a starter who can stop the run and produce 6-8 for a decade the pick was worth it, especially if winston is as good as he looked in limited time last year. 

[TerryBoats]

10 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

I wouldn't use the expression damaged goods until we see evidence that the injury continues to hamper him. As of now, the most detrimental thing we can say about the injury is that it prevented a guy that needed as many reps as possible from getting any reps. We'll see if he's able to overcome it. I just don't see the upside in Femi as a legit pass rusher that consistently puts pressure on the QB and finishes sacks. To me, Femi is a tweener that doesn't have the skills he would need at his size to be an effective pass rusher and the track record for guys like him being able to develop those skills is poor. Faulk on the other hand isn't a tweener, he's a prototypical 4-3 DE that played in the SEC and showed some flashes in rushing the passer. Faulk is more what I would expect a fairly high second rounder to be spent on. Most on this board were at least somewhat disappointed by what we got from Harold Landry and Landry was averaging like 9 sacks a season. Do you think Femi will be a better/more productive pass rusher than Landry?

No.  I'd rather have kept the high 2nd, as the dropoff in talent from the guys who went there to Femi was pretty massive.  

 

Even good GMs seem to have these gaffes. They'll overdraft a player who makes you wonder if they know something you don't, because you trust their judgment. But then they end up sucking just as much ass as you expected.  I don't think Femi is going to be an exception to the rule.

Edited July 21 by TerryBoats

[Callidus]

29 minutes ago, TerryBoats said:

No.  I'd rather have kept the high 2nd, as the dropoff in talent from the guys who went there to Femi was pretty massive.  

 

Even good GMs seem to have these gaffes. They'll overdraft a player who makes you wonder if they know something you don't, because you trust their judgment. But then they end up sucking just as much ass as you expected.  I don't think Femi is going to be an exception to the rule.

You have to take winston jr into account when talking about that trade and femi

[SleepingTitan]

42 minutes ago, Callidus said:

You have to take winston jr into account when talking about that trade and femi

And if my prediction is correct, KWJ alone is worth it

[Callidus]

52 minutes ago, SleepingTitan said:

And if my prediction is correct, KWJ alone is worth it

Ya, no1 knows at this point but if he is as good or better than nick ends up being it worked out either way

[Mythos27]

7 hours ago, NashvilleNinja said:

 

He's a projection pick but I think that may have been more the vision for him. Saleh is the coach to get that out of him more than Dennard Wilson was with the hybrid non-sense.

 

 

He's pretty much the same size as Jermaine Johnson minus a couple inches. "Tweener" is how Wilson saw him and wanted to use him, as a 3-4 edge. That's not what Saleh wants to do with him. Maybe he won't pan out, but that's my point. We don't know enough yet to be hopeful or hopeless.

 

 

Idk yet. That's what we'll find out, assuming he can stay healthy and available. I'd say that's the bigger worry right now than his actual skillset.

I'll ask you a different question then. How many edge rushers that you know of came into the league as guys who's pass rushing ability was on Femi's level and then went on to become consistent pass rush threats?

[Mythos27]

6 hours ago, titanruss said:

I don't care about his size / traits. I care about his ability to actually play the game. His exciting measurables are the same as like 10-15 guys every year, of which only a couple  become worthy of a top 75 pick. 
 

He was asked to change positions because he was losing reps at LB as he wasn't good enough... they had a hole at Edge, so he moved spots. He finished the season OK getting sacks against big school names but bad teams. 
 

 Can he be good? Who knows. There was like 7-8 DEs after him that were as good or better in the time they played. But he was probably the biggest project of alllll the DEs that draft.  
 

I think a lot of us just have big issues with taking projects at any position before like the 4th round. If you go by PFRs various actual value metrics, there was anywhere from 85-100 guys more productive per play that were drafted after Femi. We could have gotten actual starters on the OL who have much higher hit rates.  
 

I haven't given up on Femi, he could be great and develop. He plays hard and has good energy. But anything at all from him is more than can be expected. 

Right. It's not that Femi has necessarily done anything wrong it's just that the logical position regarding him becoming a top tier pass rusher is that it's unlikely to happen. I'm a Titans fan so I hope he becomes an absolute monster but I don't think it's wrong or even pessimistic to say that's an unlikely outcome. 

[Callidus]

3 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I'll ask you a different question then. How many edge rushers that you know of came into the league as guys who's pass rushing ability was on Femi's level and then went on to become consistent pass rush threats?

If thats the question at hand you(we) should be much more worried about the edge we drafted this year. 

Edited July 22 by Callidus

[Mythos27]

2 hours ago, TerryBoats said:

No.  I'd rather have kept the high 2nd, as the dropoff in talent from the guys who went there to Femi was pretty massive.  

 

Even good GMs seem to have these gaffes. They'll overdraft a player who makes you wonder if they know something you don't, because you trust their judgment. But then they end up sucking just as much ass as you expected.  I don't think Femi is going to be an exception to the rule.

Pass rush ability is one of those things that history tells you is extremely unlikely to show up in a player that you drafted without it. The others to me are speed, hands, anything a CB does, and QB processing ability/ball placement. If you don't wake up with those things in the morning don't expect to find them on the field today or 3 years from now. There are some guys one could point to as exceptions but they just prove the rule so to speak. Naturally, I don't believe in drafting projects at QB, CB, or EDGE.Save that shit for interior linemen (both sides), ILBs, safeties, etc. You play those games at your own peril. 

[Mythos27]

6 minutes ago, Callidus said:

If thats the question at hand you(we) should be much more worried about the edge we drafted this year. 

I already don't see him as a future dominant pass rushing edge. If he turns out to be Derrick Morgan I won't love it but I can live with it. If we can put a true stud on the other side of him though, watch out. Derrick Morgan looked pretty damn good once he had someone on the other side that didn't let the QB escape out the back door every time. I will say this for Faulk though, he has more natural ability than Femi, much more play strength, and he has shown he can be very disruptive vs the run by actually penetrating the LOS. If that can somehow be translated to passing downs, we might be on to something. Again though, the most likely outcome is he's never able to become that guy. Let's find out though.

Edited July 22 by Mythos27

[Callidus]

12 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I already don't see him as a future dominant pass rushing edge. If he turns out to be Derrick Morgan I won't love it but I can live with it. If we can put a true stud on the other side of him though, watch out. Derrick Morgan looked pretty damn good once he had someone on the other side that didn't let the QB escape out the back door every time. I will say this for Faulk though, he has more natural ability than Femi, much more play strength, and he has shown he can be very disruptive vs the run by actually penetrating the LOS. If that can somehow be translated to passing downs, we might be on to something. Again though, the most likely outcome is he's never able to become that guy. Let's find out though.

Faulk definitely showed more in college than femi, and the physical profile is a bit better. Wasn't questioning that. Was just saying his pass rushing ability is also a pretty big question mark. 

 

Yes he was used inside a lot which limited his opportunity to just tee off but he was also a 3 year starter so you would hope to see a lot more than you did. Femi  atleast had the excuse of he didnt know wtf he was doing. 

[Mythos27]

2 minutes ago, Callidus said:

Faulk definitely showed more in college than femi, and the physical profile is a bit better. Wasn't questioning that. Was just saying his pass rushing ability is also a pretty big question mark. 

 

Yes he was used inside a lot which limited his opportunity to just tee off but he was also a 3 year starter so you would hope to see a lot more than you did. Femi  atleast had the excuse of he didnt know wtf he was doing. 

Right. Neither profile inspires much confidence in me. They're two different flavors of unlikely to be top tier edge rushers but right now I think Faulk is less unlikely. In contrast, I had high confidence Landry would at least be good because he showed his natural, at times freakish pass rush ability in college and the hope was that a few years in an NFL weight program would vault him into the next level. Since size and strength gains are things you can reasonably expect to improve in the NFL, I think this was a fair expectation. Ultimately, he didn't become that and it is what it is but I think we got pretty good value from him given where he was selected.