Charlie Kirk shot UPDATE: Confirmed Dead

[oldschool]

3 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I don't know when the center and left will realize that it doesn't matter one but what they do or say, the right will create whatever narrative they need to serve their purposes in the moment. So trying to placate these people. Empathy doesn't mean sanitizing.

 

Kirk had racists views a plenty, none moreso than about black people. The left better be careful whitewashing this dude's resume in an effort to show empathy and solidarity. They may just end up alienating black America in the process.

[rns90]

31 minutes ago, oldschool said:

Kirk was a piece of shit who was a stain on this nation; he didnt deserve to die though. The fact the left and the media are so terrified of the current state of things they are willing to gloss over the truth is pathetic and I have news for them; its falling on deaf ears on the right. The right is already using this to further divide the country with calls for war. Stop being pussies democrats and stand on business. 

Why haven’t they learned this lesson?  Basically they are still trying to be nice and civil when the other side just fights dirty .

 

This has been going on for a while now.  The progressive side understands this .  It’s the centrists/mainstream ones that don’t get it.

['Nator]

Meanwhile our favorite president has been stroking out 

 

 

 

[Mythos27]

36 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

Kirk had racists views a plenty, none moreso than about black people. The left better be careful whitewashing this dude's resume in an effort to show empathy and solidarity. They may just end up alienating black America in the process.

Non-maga black people are currently feeling betrayed by white leftists that are acting like Kirk didn't talk shit about black people. You're correct on this. 

[Mythos27]

31 minutes ago, Titandan said:

I don't know if you noticed but 2024-25 was an interesting year for the right. We had some major beef amongst some of the influential people.  Candace vs. Shapiro, Crowder vs. Daily Wire, Dave Smith vs. Douglas Murray, Tucker vs. Shapiro, Tim Pool vs. Adam Crigler, etc... 

Some of these were personal and others were policy differences.  I think a lot of us felt like we were becoming more divided.  But I think disagreements, debate, and even division (in some sense) can be a great thing for everyone.  And when one of our own gets carried away with stuff (Kanye and Nick Fuentes' anti-semitic rants), we call them out.  We make sure they are in the periphery and not the mainline actors.

The left actually allows this type of rhetoric to go unchecked.  You can say all you want about you're not the board police but your silence on these matters speaks volumes.  Yeah, I don't actually give a shit what some of the crazies talk about. I don't know them and I don't care.  I used to and it used to piss me off.  Not worth it.  But if that's what the left is willing to tolerate, go for it. 

Trump's words are his words.  He speaks his mind without next to zero filter.  He also says extreme things so that there can be compromise and deals struck.  If you've worked in any form of negotiation, you probably have met some people with these type of tactics.  Sure, you can demonize everything that comes out of his mouth without trying to understand him through his actions.  But if that's the case, you're not part of the solution.  Furthermore, I'd rather Obama be a loud mouth asswipe and get through policies that help our country than an eloquent bullshitter who's been in bed with mega corporations the entire time. 

In politics, it's never completely one side's fault.  But conservatives have been bringing their fists to a gun fight for a long ass time now.  I'm not proposing we change that and start shooting each other but the crazies need to be dealt with either way. If Dems aren't going to do anything about it, don't complain when our side goes after them finally.  

And notice, you don't see right wing "Nazi thugs" rioting on the streets, looting stores, and burning down buildings the last two days?  That's how a civilized people mourn the loss of a true hero.  I'm asking you on a personal human level.  I only ask because you seem like a decent dude.  Who's actions you see yourself more closely aligned to? 

I took your advice and I've been trying to be nicer lately and I still get made fun of for sharing my love for some of the dudes on the other side.  It's not worth fighting over every issue and if I ever meet some of these guys, I'm sure I'll probably like them in real life.  I'm almost entirely sure I'd like you.  But peace has got to start somewhere and cheap shots continue to go unanswered, unity and civility will never be achieved. 

Except I haven't been silent. I'm leading by example rather doing some performative "call out" that falls on deaf ears. I could easily join in on some of the more extreme talk here but I don't and propose an alternative way to view and handle things. You guys are great at performance but you're not very good at consistency and leading by example. That's what I'm doing and if that isn't enough for you then it is what it is.

 

You just complete gave Trump a pass on using outwardly hateful rhetoric towards political opponents. That's what I expected. What you prefer Obama do means nothing. The president sets the tone of the country and he let's his party know what is permitted and what is not. Trump provides a permission structure for his followers that allows them to do or say anything no matter how vile as long as it "owns the libs" you'll excuse me if us libs took notice and have decided to stop being your punching bag. 

 

I see myself as aligned with the people that protect marginalized groups from bullies. I align myself with the people that wants people to live their own lives without conservatives imposing a theocracy on them. Notice I said PEOPLE, not SIDE. I 'm on the left because this is where most of those people are whether you agree or not and I'll stay here until the right stops treating marginalized groups as red meat to generate votes and cover up their incompetence. That said, the democratic party is NOT my home; they're the hostel I'm staying at because it's better than the street so I'm trying to make it as nice as I can for the time being. 

 

Now that we're done with the petty party shit, let's get real. At the end of the day; you're always going to feel like most of the violence, hate speech, and authoritarian tendencies come from the left. I can argue with you forever but I'll never convince you. At the same time, I'm always going to feel that most of the violence, hate speech, and authoritarian tendencies come from the right. You're not going to talk me out of that. So where does that leave us? I think we both genuinely want to bring the temperature down but is airing grievances getting either of us closer to that? No. So the question isn't "who spilled the milk" it's "how do we clean it up together"? 

Edited September 12, 2025 by Mythos27

[Mythos27]

7 minutes ago, Titandan said:

Specifics?  

Speaking of "black people..." Kirk was just getting his start with Candace Owens almost a decade ago.  A sweet tribute to her friend. 

 

I mean no disrespect but I'm not going to watch 23 minutes of Candace Owens. I just can't do it. That said, she had to watch her friend be brutally killed. I don't wish that on anyone and I really hope she can get through the ordeal of grief. These are not light things we're messing with here. 

[LongTimeFan]

The main thing i get from this thread is that oldschool has CKDS.

[Mythos27]

14 minutes ago, Titandan said:

I don't agree with much of what Candace is pushing these days... Macron's wife being a man or Israel/Palestine conflict but she's a seriously gifted communicator and I know she had a real close relationship with Kirk.  

I was tearing up towards the end.  Gotta be heart-wrenching for her to see someone she considers a brother get murdered so publicly.  

My guy. This is the worst of us. If we don't do something fast, this is the future for all us. That's not where I want to live. Surely, the fleeting pleasure of "owning" our political opponents isn't worth this price. That's why I keep coming back to this question; "where do we go from here"? How do we get people who believe that they are locked in an eliminationist contest, who will never trust anyone from the other side, to lay down their rhetorical arms and see each other as human. How the fuck do we accomplish that and more importantly, how do we accomplish it before it's too late? I don't have the answer and my fear is that most people wouldn't listen if I did. The dark truth that humanity doesn't like to admit about itself if that hate feels good and hate that we believe is righteous is intoxicating. Our society is completely addicted to it. 

Edited September 12, 2025 by Mythos27

[TheBukafax]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news guys but the Christofascists aren’t going to give up power. The only way this goes is violence.

Edited September 12, 2025 by TheBukafax

[Jamalisms]

28 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I think we both genuinely want to bring the temperature down ...

 

[Mythos27]

1 minute ago, Titandan said:

Trump is a very unique political figure because either you get him or you don't.  He's effective to those who have been swindled by the politicians of the past because he doesn't speak like a politician.  Remember when Obama had the Whitehouse correspondence dinner (or some other event) and Keegan Michael-Key was the anger translator or something like that.  Obama said he's fluff and Key translated it in words that Obama really meant.  I think some people find that refreshing that a president would actually like that and Trump probably/most definitely feeds off of that.  

Part of me can't wait until Trump's out of office so that we won't have to be distracted by "understanding Trump" or hating him for his constant lies and embellishments. 

As far at cleaning up the spilt milk, what's done is done.  Kirk ain't coming back.  But the way we can figuratively clean up the blood and patch up the wounds of our country is by debating ideas without attacking one another.  But that will only work if people like you and me stick to the policies and keep the extremists and assholes at bay.  If you believe Kirk is an asshole and his policies are inherently racist or extreme, I don't think there really is a solution.  The "Prove me Wrong" sessions that I have seen, Kirk was very fair and debated students and professors in a very civil manner.  You don't have to agree with them, but at least listen to the content, observe his treatment of his opponent, and come away with your own opinions on each argument. 

But that's the problem with these "debates". Black people's intelligence or lack thereof is not up for debate. LGBTQ people's right to live in safety and with full self-determination should not be up for debate. I'll gladly debate any conservative on tax policy, the size of government, and how to interpret the constitution but increasingly the "debates" that the right wants to have is "I don't think your group has the same inherent value as mine. Change my mind" and I'm not about to debate my intrinsic value as human with any fucking body because my humanity is not up for debate. Being "nice" while attacking people's humanity doesn't pass for "civil debate" in my book. 

[Mythos27]

6 minutes ago, Titandan said:

We can start with you and me, brother.  

I can disagree with you and still have love for you.  Awww... 
Treat each individual as a human being created in the image of the Almighty.  Have a good night, my brother.  

Agreed man. Until the next one. 

[TheBukafax]

1 minute ago, Mythos27 said:

But that's the problem with these "debates". Black people's intelligence or lack thereof is not up for debate. LGBTQ people's right to live in safety and with full self-determination should not be up for debate. I'll gladly debate any conservative on tax policy, the size of government, and how to interpret the constitution but increasingly the "debates" that the right wants to have is "I don't think your group has the same inherent value as mine. Change my mind" and I'm not about to debate my intrinsic value as human with any fucking body because my humanity is not up for debate. Being "nice" while attacking people's humanity doesn't pass for "civil debate" in my book. 

This right here and they’ll gaslight you to oblivion with semantics.

['Nator]

 

[MadMax]

7 minutes ago, 'Nator said:

 

All part of the plan.