Wyatt: Carthon Fired

[oldschool]

Just now, titanruss said:

Why argue anything about racial hiring without stats? How long each race is represented at each position... then you can argue something miiiiggght be racist or not.

 

I saw a tweet yesterday that showed one and done HCs and GMs fired within 2 years. Most of them were minorities. like I said its a very small sample size being there are only 32 NFL teams, but it wasn't surprising to me.

[rns90]

A lot of these jobs in general are bad jobs so it doesn’t matter in terms of race .

 

But I think there is an improvement in terms of minorities HC getting second chances , Bowles and Morris.   And maybe Flores might get another shot.

[oldschool]

2 minutes ago, rns90 said:

A lot of these jobs in general are bad jobs so it doesn’t matter in terms of race .

 

But I think there is an improvement in terms of minorities HC getting second chances , Bowles and Morris.   And maybe Flores might get another shot.

 

I'm sure this board can't handle honest discourse, most online mediums can't, but Its not a good look that both Carthon and Mayo are being painted as lazy and sleeping/playing while others are working. 

[titanruss]

8 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

I saw a tweet yesterday that showed one and done HCs and GMs fired within 2 years. Most of them were minorities. like I said its a very small sample size being there are only 32 NFL teams, but it wasn't surprising to me.

 

Would also be interesting to know pre/post Rooney rule with those. Hard to force old white billionaires how to handle their biz.

[BeedoeLaw]

12 minutes ago, titanruss said:

Why argue anything about racial hiring without stats? How long each race is represented at each position... then you can argue something miiiiggght be racist or not.

It is quite telling that you question my post about how incompetent minorities are fired quicker than their incompetent white counterparts, but you fail to mention the original poster's inference that the minorities were only hired because of their race. He even said that the fact that they were evere hired at all was "racism".

[BudsOilers]

This topic has shades of grey to it.  It's undeniable that black coaches and GM's have received less opportunities and less time to succeed than white counterparts. 

 

Also true is that some teams have either opted to or were strongly encouraged to hire minority candidates who were either not ready for the role or in a couple of instances purely done for tanking/see we hired a black guy (David Culley comes to mind).

 

Likewise, teams simply aren't giving GM's and HC's 5 years to turn things around anymore in general.  You get a couple of years tops and if you don't show progress you're gone.  Black or white.

 

The stuff about Carthon and Mayo hopefully doesn't get framed to deter hiring black candidates.  That said, it doesn't help fight antiquated stereotypes.

 

 

[Righteous]

48 minutes ago, BeedoeLaw said:

The funny thing is, incompetent white guys tend to hold their jobs much longer.

What are we doing here?  Are we referring to actual data or woke emotions?  Over 80% of HC fired after their first year were White.   Black coaches like Raheem Morris, Herm Edwards, Dennis Green, Ray Rhoads, Romeo Crennell, Lovie Smith and Todd Bowles got second HC jobs in the NFL because they were qualified.  There is not 1 NFL fan who believed that Antonio Pierce and Jerod Mayo were qualified to be a head coach.  The only problem with them being fired is they shouldn’t have been hired in the first place.  The world doesn’t need Liberal whites playing God and trying to create an equality of outcomes.  That’s the real problem.

Edited January 9, 2025 by Righteous

[rns90]

6 minutes ago, oldschool said:

 

I'm sure this board can't handle honest discourse, most online mediums can't, but Its not a good look that both Carthon and Mayo are being painted as lazy and sleeping/playing while others are working. 

I tend to look at these guys from a case by case basis and not by skin color.  Guys like Jim Tomsula, Hackett are the white equivalent of Mayo.  In Hacketts case, there was some nepotism.

2 minutes ago, titanruss said:

 

Would also be interesting to know pre/post Rooney rule with those. Hard to force old white billionaires how to handle their biz.

That’s a big issue that you can’t really rectify w/the Rooney rule or anything else.   But there seem to be less mediocre retread white coaches being hired to second gigs.

[BudsOilers]

Recent 1 and done Coaches off the top include Urban Meyer, Frank Reich, and Hackett.  

[rns90]

Just now, BudsOilers said:

Recent 1 and done Coaches off the top include Urban Meyer, Frank Reich, and Hackett.  

2 of those involve bottom 5 owners too.  It wouldn’t have mattered which race they were.  

[OILERMAN]

2 hours ago, titanruss said:

When Ran started... he basically said that his wife didnt want him working too hard

 

He's got one happy wife!

[TitanUpNorth]

2 hours ago, animatormike said:

I've always felt we were a bit off in our assessment of what happened with JRob.

1. I think Amy's reaction makes more sense if we assume that she felt mislead on the status of the AJ Brown contract negotiations.  That Eagles game was when he told the press that he was open to resigning with the Titans and they never got an offer back from JRob. Perhaps she even talked to AJ or his agent when she was at the game. Either way the immediate firing would make more sense if she felt she had been lied to and lost all trust in him, rather than just some emotional reaction to the Eagles loss.

2. JRob's dramatic fall off in his ability to perform the job, combined with the tone of her announcement and the silence from all parties since then always reminded me of situations I have been in where an executive was let go due to unaddressed substance abuse issues. Always been hesitant to say that out loud, and of course it is probably irresponsible to say now, but I have never been able to shake that feeling.

Possibly but Vrabels reaction speaks volumes that it was a surprise.

[Righteous]

Pierce and Mayo highest position in coaching was LBer coach.  What made them qualified to be HC’s.  Name me White LBer coaches who skipped in line to become head coaches.  We need to stop with this nonsense.

[tgo]

2 hours ago, animatormike said:

I've always felt we were a bit off in our assessment of what happened with JRob.

1. I think Amy's reaction makes more sense if we assume that she felt mislead on the status of the AJ Brown contract negotiations.  That Eagles game was when he told the press that he was open to resigning with the Titans and they never got an offer back from JRob. Perhaps she even talked to AJ or his agent when she was at the game. Either way the immediate firing would make more sense if she felt she had been lied to and lost all trust in him, rather than just some emotional reaction to the Eagles loss.

2. JRob's dramatic fall off in his ability to perform the job, combined with the tone of her announcement and the silence from all parties since then always reminded me of situations I have been in where an executive was let go due to unaddressed substance abuse issues. Always been hesitant to say that out loud, and of course it is probably irresponsible to say now, but I have never been able to shake that feeling.

Have had the exact same thought process. 

[rns90]

9 minutes ago, Righteous said:

Pierce and Mayo highest position in coaching was LBer coach.  What made them qualified to be HC’s.  Name me White LBer coaches who skipped in line to become head coaches.  We need to stop with this nonsense.

Pierce isn’t a good example ; he got hired because he did well as an interim coach after taking over for McDaniels.

 

One of these things that dooms these guys—black or white—is the networking or hiring of assistants.  If you have a limited Rolodex and hire first timers for the important spots (DC, OC,ST) , it will probably lead to disaster.