Jon Robinson comes out of hibernation

[scine09]

11 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

 

I've made this argument a million times over. I remember you arguing back in the day it was more about BB.....

 

But Belichich has his own awesome resume, even as the DC of the Giants. Brady wasn't Brady in the first few SB wins either

Yes, I used to think it was Belichick.  Until Brady left, Belichick flopped and Brady won the SB.

[OILERMAN]

4 minutes ago, scine09 said:

Yes, I used to think it was Belichick.  Until Brady left, Belichick flopped and Brady won the SB.

 

Well just to be clear, yes QB is way more important than HC

 

That still doesn't mean Belichich isn't one of the best coaches in history

[IrishTitansFan]

11 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

 

Even the best coaches have to have quality QBs. 

 

Yes, QB is more important than HC but that doesn't mean BB wasn't one of the best coaches in NFL history.

 

What coach was racking up postseason wins or consistently winning without a good QB?

Also important to note it's beyond obvious when a HOF is held back by bad coaches (Manning and Dungy, Rodgers and McCarthy)

[IrishTitansFan]

Belichick is the best coach in NFL history. Always had a great defense independent of talent. Could work in UDFAs or HOFers without incident constantly. Hired good people and his offensive philosophy was not only able to evolve year to year, but week to week dependent on opponent

[scine09]

3 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

 

Well just to be clear, yes QB is way more important than HC

 

That still doesn't mean Belichich isn't one of the best coaches in history

He won six Super Bowls.  Obviously he's going to be considered one of the best.  His resume without Brady, however, is mediocre at best, and the sample size is ten years.

[OILERMAN]

11 minutes ago, scine09 said:

He won six Super Bowls.  Obviously he's going to be considered one of the best.  His resume without Brady, however, is mediocre at best, and the sample size is ten years.

 

Show me the head coach without quality QB play and results. 

 

The best is probably Gibbs but those QBs all played very well in the SB years 

[ctm]

Also of note, JRob got lucky when RT decided he wanted to play here.  

[OILERMAN]

Just now, ctm said:

Also of note, JRob got lucky when RT decided he wanted to play here.  

 

As did Vrabel and Arthur Smith

[IrishTitansFan]

25 minutes ago, ctm said:

Also of note, JRob got lucky when RT decided he wanted to play here.  

I hate this argument and it is a fundamental misunderstanding of how this works. Agents are involved in targeting teams in almost every scenario. There is almost no point praising a GM for any move if that is how you think

[scine09]

1 hour ago, IrishTitansFan said:

Belichick is the best coach in NFL history. Always had a great defense independent of talent. Could work in UDFAs or HOFers without incident constantly. Hired good people and his offensive philosophy was not only able to evolve year to year, but week to week dependent on opponent

You mean like when he decided that Joe Judge and Matt Patricia would be a good combination at offensive coordinator?

 

Belichick hired good people at the beginning but toward the end his staffs were a joke.

[scine09]

1 hour ago, OILERMAN said:

 

Show me the head coach without quality QB play and results. 

 

The best is probably Gibbs but those QBs all played very well in the SB years 

Again, that's why I'm saying it's mostly Brady.  Without Brady Belichick had winning records in 30% of seasons.  How do you honestly think Brady would've done without Belichick?

 

I'll say this.  Belichick was significantly more responsible for the Patriots first three Super Bowl wins than the other three Super Bowl wins.  Without Belichick I don't think they'd win those three but without Belichick I think they'd have won the last three.

[IrishTitansFan]

10 minutes ago, scine09 said:

You mean like when he decided that Joe Judge and Matt Patricia would be a good combination at offensive coordinator?

 

Belichick hired good people at the beginning but toward the end his staffs were a joke.

Make no mistake, Belichick was the offensive coordinator and that was a calculated decision to make a point to Kraft

 

Belichick was clearly a great HC

[scine09]

11 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

Make no mistake, Belichick was the offensive coordinator and that was a calculated decision to make a point to Kraft

 

Belichick was clearly a great HC

So Belichick sacrificed his coaching to make a point to Kraft?  Come on now.

 

I agree, he was the OC.  But that's because he, like Vrabel, is a control freak who won't give power to anyone else.  That's why everyone he's hired are people he knows he can control and/or he trusts due to years of working together.

[IrishTitansFan]

7 minutes ago, scine09 said:

So Belichick sacrificed his coaching to make a point to Kraft?  Come on now.

 

I agree, he was the OC.  But that's because he, like Vrabel, is a control freak who won't give power to anyone else.  That's why everyone he's hired are people he knows he can control and/or he trusts due to years of working together.

Yes, as has been reported Belichick was sick of Kraft interfering, particularly as it pertained to Mayo and the Brady situation

 

Belichick was bad for his last couple of years, but his staff was consistently awesome during his entire time and he developed some great assistant coaches during that time. McDaniels, BOB, Patrick Graham, Brian Flores etc

 

 

[scine09]

3 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

Yes, as has been reported Belichick was sick of Kraft interfering, particularly as it pertained to Mayo and the Brady situation

 

Belichick was bad for his last couple of years, but his staff was consistently awesome during his entire time and he developed some great assistant coaches during that time. McDaniels, BOB, Patrick Graham, Brian Flores etc

 

 

The staff was bad after Brady left.  Everything was bad after Brady left.