reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 Just now, OzTitan said: But if they all turned on him, he could just have the killed or imprisoned, no? who has the final power over the Russian security and military services? Its not really that easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, kgsTitan said: Well, if that's true, then all off-ramps are closed, as I see it. We're all rolling the iron dice here, so God help us. I just can't envision Putin saying OK, I guess I lost. Sorry for the trouble everybody. I thought it would be cool with everyone if we took Ukraine, but we'll just go home now. Tgo’s idea of bringing them into NATO is DOA. Starting a no-fly zone is the same. It’s too big a risk. I legit think the Biden administration called Erdogan and told him any blockade is strictly symbolic. NATO cannot risk open war with Russia. This is a very dangerous moment in history. People seem to think it’s a joke. It isn’t. There doesn’t seem to be an off-ramp here. Russia will take Ukraine and from what I can tell Zelinsky isn’t going anywhere and will die with his troops. That will only continue the escalation. There are no easy answers here. The best NATO can do is destroy Russia’s economy and hope to contain this. I guess I’m saying I’ve played this out in my mind and I keep coming back to the point it doesn’t end without Russia overthrowing Putin. titanruss, kgsTitan, Titans279, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemEngr79 Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) Seems Russia is floundering a bit in the last 36 hours... Edited February 27, 2022 by ChemEngr79 titanruss, and IsntLifeFunny 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzTitan Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 minute ago, reo said: Its not really that easy. Even a guy like Putin needs allies, and keeping powerful people in society on his side is definitely in his best interests. Russia could go downhill fast if he doesn't. I just don't think they have any real power, not over Putin personally. It would require them to gain additional power (control over security and military) for them to achieve that. Right now if they expressed their displeasure, it may help persuade him to change course over Ukraine, but I can't see how he'd be directly threatened as the leader of Russia by them, he'd be extremely sensitive to any show of force against him right now and wouldn't hesitate to act. Of course having said that, all it takes is one bullet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
begooode Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, reo said: Nah. I'm saying the rich have power and Putin is only in power as long as he keeps making them rich. Every powerful person in Russia is indebted to Putin. He made them or tolerated them, but they have nothing without his allowing it (less his 10-20%, of course). Can they conspire against him? Sure. But no way they can trust each other to pull it off, and all it takes is a hint of desperation for one of them to turn on the others. Also Putin has 100% control of the Russian media. The conspirators would die a traitorous death, while Putin takes a Mother Russia virtue bath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: without Russia overthrowing Putin. Yup Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgsTitan Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: Tgo’s idea of bringing them into NATO is DOA. Starting a no-fly zone is the same. It’s too big a risk. I legit think the Biden administration called Erdogan and told him any blockade is strictly symbolic. NATO cannot risk open war with Russia. This is a very dangerous moment in history. People seem to think it’s a joke. It isn’t. There doesn’t seem to be an off-ramp here. Russia will take Ukraine and from what I can tell Zelinsky isn’t going anywhere and will die with his troops. That will only continue the escalation. There are no easy answers here. The best NATO can do is destroy Russia’s economy and hope to contain this. I guess I’m saying I’ve played this out in my mind and I keep coming back to the point it doesn’t end without Russia overthrowing Putin. Zelinsky and the Klitschko brothers publically being killed...could you imagine? Hard to believe this is happening, but it is. I don't see any good outcome. It's a horrible situation. IsntLifeFunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, ChemEngr79 said: Seems Russia is floundering a bit in the last 36 hours... They are, but that’s because they haven’t used much if any of their heavy armaments. If they decide to they could start dropping heavy bombs on cities and the war would be over. They don’t want to do that, but I’m not sure if they won’t if another week goes by and they still haven’t taken Kyiv. ChemEngr79 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, reo said: Not the point. Biden v Trump in 2024. Who are you voting for? Just say it. We all know the answer. I just wouldn't vote like I have before and have a clear conscience IsntLifeFunny, Jerry Blair, and reo 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, kgsTitan said: Zelinsky and the Klitschko brothers publically being killed...could you imagine? Hard to believe this is happening, but it is. I don't see any good outcome. It's a horrible situation. I think Putin actually believed what all of his sycophants were telling him. He thought Ukraine would lay down and that over half the population would embrace Russia. It’s a mistake that has put the world into a very precarious situation. The best outcome is the Russian forces simply stop fighting. These people are family and are also joined by ethnicity and religion. If that happens Putin will be removed. He can’t bomb his own troops. I don’t know. I’m spitballing here. This move has permanently isolated the largest nuclear country on earth. reo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, begooode said: Every powerful person in Russia is indebted to Putin. He made them or tolerated them, but they have nothing without his allowing it (less his 10-20%, of course). Can they conspire against him? Sure. But no way they can trust each other to pull it off, and all it takes is a hint of desperation for one of them to turn on the others. Also Putin has 100% control of the Russian media. The conspirators would die a traitorous death, while Putin takes a Mother Russia virtue bath. That's not really how it works though. Boris Yeltsin was in power bc he forged an agreement with the oligarchs. Then he fell out of favor and Putin came to power bc the oligarchs preferred him. The oligarchs in the end have the power from my understanding. This isn't Syria or Libya. But I could be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, headhunter said: I just wouldn't vote like I have before and have a clear conscience Props to you if it comes to that. begooode 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 i think this is the door that opens slowly to world war 3.. people are taking this way to lightly. Putin is trying to establish himself as world dominator oldschool 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, headhunter said: I just wouldn't vote like I have before and have a clear conscience Fair enough. I hope you can understand everyone here isn’t giving you shit. All of us are saying to you this rhetoric from Trump is outright anti-American and pro-Russia. You have to see that. headhunter, and reo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted February 27, 2022 Report Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: They are, but that’s because they haven’t used much if any of their heavy armaments. If they decide to they could start dropping heavy bombs on cities and the war would be over. They don’t want to do that, but I’m not sure if they won’t if another week goes by and they still haven’t taken Kyiv. Putin wants to take Ukraine, not destroy it. Let’s just hope he doesn’t decide that he’d rather lay waste to the country than lose. But it’s a real possibility. Edited February 27, 2022 by Starkiller IsntLifeFunny, and reo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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