Titans fire Callahan; Mike McCoy Named Interim

[Mythos27]

1 hour ago, rns90 said:

I was watching Detroit a little yesterday.  There were a couple of plays ; quick out to St. Brown he gets 20 yards mostly on yac.  Simple swing pass to Gibbs , he almost scores a td (Sewell misses a block).  None of these are complicated plays that require scheming .  They were just normal plays that were successful because the guy catching and running the ball was better than TB’s player.

 

While scheming can get you in the right spots and maximize the ability, you still have to be good enough and the Titans just don’t have enough in their units, plus they are a pretty young team at key spots. 

Well said. This is partly what I mean when I say that people don't fully appreciate just how radically different talent makes things look. What frustrates me so much about Titans fans in particular is that we should know better than anyone how big the difference is. I remember what our offense looked like before Tannehill took over. People were shitting on Art Smith saying that the scheme was bad. Too many heavy packages, not enough this, not enough that. And regardless of how they intellectualized it, they weren't saying these things on the back of painstaking film analysis but rather because the offense was like pulling teeth. Even when we scored it looked like a struggle. Then Tannehill take over during the Chargers game and IMMEDIATELY the offense was night and day different. Overnight, Arthur Smith becomes a Titans darling and is getting talked about as a HC candidate. Smith didn't become a better coach overnight. He didn't overhaul the scheme. He ran the same shit he was running but now the players could shine because Mariota wasn't holding them back anymore. That's the power of talent. When a team looks like ours you can be rest assured it's a talent problem and whatever coaching issues exist are so secondary that to spend a lot of time discussing them is a waste.

 

That's why I'm not wavering on this one. When Vrabel was here, I was stubborn too and said that the real problem was talent not Vrabel. 2 years later and like 80% of those guys I said sucked are off the team, our talent level is historically low,  meanwhile Vrabel is the HC for the 5-1 division-leading Patriots. Why should I change my analysis? Because we looked decent for 1 half of football? Most of the times I've been wrong on this board it's because I let the board sentiment affect my conviction. Not happening this time. People will be annoyed by me but so be it. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

Well said. This is partly what I mean when I say that people don't fully appreciate just how radically different talent makes things look. What frustrates me so much about Titans fans in particular is that we should know better than anyone how big the difference is. I remember what our offense looked like before Tannehill took over. People were shitting on Art Smith saying that the scheme was bad. Too many heavy packages, not enough this, not enough that. And regardless of how they intellectualized it, they weren't saying these things on the back of painstaking film analysis but rather because the offense was like pulling teeth. Even when we scored it looked like a struggle. Then Tannehill take over during the Chargers game and IMMEDIATELY the offense was night and day different. Overnight, Arthur Smith becomes a Titans darling and is getting talked about as a HC candidate. Smith didn't become a better coach overnight. He didn't overhaul the scheme. He ran the same shit he was running but now the players could shine because Mariota wasn't holding them back anymore. That's the power of talent. When a team looks like ours you can be rest assured it's a talent problem and whatever coaching issues exist are so secondary that to spend a lot of time discussing them is a waste.

 

That's why I'm not wavering on this one. When Vrabel was here, I was stubborn too and said that the real problem was talent not Vrabel. 2 years later and like 80% of those guys I said sucked are off the team, our talent level is historically low,  meanwhile Vrabel is the HC for the 5-1 division-leading Patriots. Why should I change my analysis? Because we looked decent for 1 half of football? Most of the times I've been wrong on this board it's because I let the board sentiment affect my conviction. Not happening this time. People will be annoyed by me but so be it. 

I guess I'm just genuinely interested if you're referring to TR posters or the media. Terry is, and always has been, a pitbull on a T-bone. Other than that I don't see it. No one is saying great coaching makes this a good team. It's saying it makes it to where we can at least be competitive. We were against a good team in the first half, the only good first half we've had all year and the only time the offense has looked competent outside of 1 quarter against mainly prevent. 

 

The other side is we were without our best player on both sides of the ball. Ridley being out limited any chance at passing in known passing situations. He's the only WR who gets quick separation. You discount that yet talk about how important the players are. The defense held the Patriots to a FG and a punt before Simmons went out. Then they completely collapsed. Doesn't feel like you're being even in your tally here. 

 

What we know is changing coaches led to the only consistent offense we've seen against a base defense not playing deep. Ward was excellent in the first half. As soon as we were in known passing situations they shifted their defense to ignore the run and caught Cam making a rookie mistake. Now we are down 3 possessions in known passing situations and get slaughtered. I guess I don't see how you can so easily discount the context. With Simmons on the field they were beating the Patriots. Without the self-inflicted holding call they would have scored 4 straight possessions. Ward ended the first half with a near perfect QB rating. That is real and tangible progress in my opinion. 

[Mythos27]

25 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I guess I'm just genuinely interested if you're referring to TR posters or the media. Terry is, and always has been, a pitbull on a T-bone. Other than that I don't see it. No one is saying great coaching makes this a good team. It's saying it makes it to where we can at least be competitive. We were against a good team in the first half, the only good first half we've had all year and the only time the offense has looked competent outside of 1 quarter against mainly prevent. 

 

The other side is we were without our best player on both sides of the ball. Ridley being out limited any chance at passing in known passing situations. He's the only WR who gets quick separation. You discount that yet talk about how important the players are. The defense held the Patriots to a FG and a punt before Simmons went out. Then they completely collapsed. Doesn't feel like you're being even in your tally here. 

 

What we know is changing coaches led to the only consistent offense we've seen against a base defense not playing deep. Ward was excellent in the first half. As soon as we were in known passing situations they shifted their defense to ignore the run and caught Cam making a rookie mistake. Now we are down 3 possessions in known passing situations and get slaughtered. I guess I don't see how you can so easily discount the context. With Simmons on the field they were beating the Patriots. Without the self-inflicted holding call they would have scored 4 straight possessions. Ward ended the first half with a near perfect QB rating. That is real and tangible progress in my opinion. 

Let's see what happens the rest of the season. I've been here long enough to know that when the board reaches a certain type of consensus there is nothing I can do to change the narrative. I've tried and failed enough times to learn that only time can convince people. I've made my stance known, just as I did when I told y'all firing Vrabel wouldn't fix anything and was right about that.

Edited Tuesday at 10:58 PM by Mythos27

[rns90]

2 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Let's see what happens the rest of the season. I've been here long enough to know that when the board reaches a certain type of consensus there is nothing I can do to change the narrative. I've tried and failed enough times to learn that only time can convince people. I've made my stance known, just as I did when I told y'all firing Vrabel wouldn't fix anything and was right about that.

I hate it when you change my mind on these things.  As someone who was on that side (coaching change making a difference ) it doesn’t matter as much as one thinks .

 

Using another one of your analogies, shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich.  Some of it is just fan coping /rationalizing  and just not wanting to believe that this is a long and multi year rebuilding.  It’s the “if we look better under interim guy that means this won’t take as long” thinking .

 

Looking at the damn roster objectively:

 

S—listed this first because it’s one of the few areas where we aren’t deficient .  Winston Jr, Hooker, Woods are an NFL level trio.

 

Edge/DL in general :  defcon 1, massive resources needed to be invested here.

CB:  same as edge 

 

MLB:  I think Gray is a keeper .  Barton is a stiff.  Weak against the pass.  Middle level need.

 

OL: tbd .  It’s bad now .  But we have to wait to see how bad/good it is.  Zeitler will have to be replaced and idk about Latham (legit injury excuse/development).  Could go either way.  But the unit doesn’t lack talent .

 

WR:  need multiple pieces including a vet.   Probably will add mid tier level guys since the defense will get a bulk of the attention.

 

RB:  sneaky need.  Pollard is on his last legs and Spears needs to stay healthy.  I will say this is a plug and play position and you can pick up guys for cheap and improve it that way.

 

This is going to take at least a couple years .  And I get it no fanbase wants to think that their team has zero shot at the playoffs next year .  But it is what it is.

[AussieTitanFan08]

1 hour ago, rns90 said:

since the defense will get a bulk of the attention.

 

 

Absolutely this defense needs a massive injection of talent but when this team has just used the #1 pick on a QB who is struggling don't rule out the focus of the offseason being doing everything possible to get Ward's development back on track.

 

Some context the Titans 13.7pts a game so far this season should it hold around this level would be the lowest scoring team since the 2012 Chiefs who scored 13.2pts a game.

Edited Wednesday at 02:40 AM by AussieTitanFan08

[OzTitan]

1 hour ago, rns90 said:

...RB:  sneaky need.  Pollard is on his last legs and Spears needs to stay healthy.  I will say this is a plug and play position and you can pick up guys for cheap and improve it that way....

Not usually an advocate for spending much on RB, but the FA class should be relatively strong and I think the Titans are in the perfect position to spend money there - there is a need, there is cap room without much consequence (cap won't get serious until Ward needs extending, so years from that point) and the offense desperately needs some proven production. In theory, helps Ward, and also doesn't burn any picks.

[Mythos27]

2 hours ago, rns90 said:

I hate it when you change my mind on these things.  As someone who was on that side (coaching change making a difference ) it doesn’t matter as much as one thinks .

 

Using another one of your analogies, shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich.  Some of it is just fan coping /rationalizing  and just not wanting to believe that this is a long and multi year rebuilding.  It’s the “if we look better under interim guy that means this won’t take as long” thinking .

 

Looking at the damn roster objectively:

 

S—listed this first because it’s one of the few areas where we aren’t deficient .  Winston Jr, Hooker, Woods are an NFL level trio.

 

Edge/DL in general :  defcon 1, massive resources needed to be invested here.

CB:  same as edge 

 

MLB:  I think Gray is a keeper .  Barton is a stiff.  Weak against the pass.  Middle level need.

 

OL: tbd .  It’s bad now .  But we have to wait to see how bad/good it is.  Zeitler will have to be replaced and idk about Latham (legit injury excuse/development).  Could go either way.  But the unit doesn’t lack talent .

 

WR:  need multiple pieces including a vet.   Probably will add mid tier level guys since the defense will get a bulk of the attention.

 

RB:  sneaky need.  Pollard is on his last legs and Spears needs to stay healthy.  I will say this is a plug and play position and you can pick up guys for cheap and improve it that way.

 

This is going to take at least a couple years .  And I get it no fanbase wants to think that their team has zero shot at the playoffs next year .  But it is what it is.

Thank you for this. Sometimes, after enough people you respect disagree with you strongly you can start to question if you're off base. I just feel like I've seen this story before. 

[Callidus]

14 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Thank you for this. Sometimes, after enough people you respect disagree with you strongly you can start to question if you're off base. I just feel like I've seen this story before. 

[tgo]

 

[titanskick8851]

9 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

 

Doesn't she have to send someone in place of herself then?

[TheBukafax]

26 minutes ago, titanskick8851 said:

 

Doesn't she have to send someone in place of herself then?

Yeah I would assume each missing owner has a surrogate there.

[japan]

1 hour ago, tgo said:

 

In hiding?

[Grizz]

18 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Well said. This is partly what I mean when I say that people don't fully appreciate just how radically different talent makes things look. What frustrates me so much about Titans fans in particular is that we should know better than anyone how big the difference is. I remember what our offense looked like before Tannehill took over. People were shitting on Art Smith saying that the scheme was bad. Too many heavy packages, not enough this, not enough that. And regardless of how they intellectualized it, they weren't saying these things on the back of painstaking film analysis but rather because the offense was like pulling teeth. Even when we scored it looked like a struggle. Then Tannehill take over during the Chargers game and IMMEDIATELY the offense was night and day different. Overnight, Arthur Smith becomes a Titans darling and is getting talked about as a HC candidate. Smith didn't become a better coach overnight. He didn't overhaul the scheme. He ran the same shit he was running but now the players could shine because Mariota wasn't holding them back anymore. That's the power of talent. When a team looks like ours you can be rest assured it's a talent problem and whatever coaching issues exist are so secondary that to spend a lot of time discussing them is a waste.

 

That's why I'm not wavering on this one. When Vrabel was here, I was stubborn too and said that the real problem was talent not Vrabel. 2 years later and like 80% of those guys I said sucked are off the team, our talent level is historically low,  meanwhile Vrabel is the HC for the 5-1 division-leading Patriots. Why should I change my analysis? Because we looked decent for 1 half of football? Most of the times I've been wrong on this board it's because I let the board sentiment affect my conviction. Not happening this time. People will be annoyed by me but so be it. 

 

I agree with this to an extent, but do believe coaching and player development plays a role. It is not one factor, but a variety of factors. You cannot isolate some of these effects--we need to treat the whole ecosystem. 

 

The Lions only got better because they acquired talent over years of good drafting and then brining in the right organizational fit. The same is true for teams like the Rams. We can make that happen, and getting the coaching hire right helps. 

 

But you are 100% correct in that the talent gap is a massive issue. And the way we are handling and managing talent is putting us on an unsustainable path. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

5 minutes ago, Grizz said:

 

I agree with this to an extent, but do believe coaching and player development plays a role. It is not one factor, but a variety of factors. You cannot isolate some of these effects--we need to treat the whole ecosystem. 

 

The Lions only got better because they acquired talent over years of good drafting and then brining in the right organizational fit. The same is true for teams like the Rams. We can make that happen, and getting the coaching hire right helps. 

 

But you are 100% correct in that the talent gap is a massive issue. And the way we are handling and managing talent is putting us on an unsustainable path. 

Well said. Acting as if coaching isn't a major component in the team developing talent is a non-starter. Of course base line talent Trump's everything, but good coaching is extremely important in player development and in the playoffs when the talent disparity gap shortens noticeably between teams. 

[rns90]

12 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

I just feel like I've seen this story before. 

We have. I swear we’re been talking about the talent gap since late 2022 at least .

 

I do think that we have the right guy in Borgonzi though.  I just wish he did more on the front seven this year.