Starkiller Posted November 23, 2025 Report Share Posted November 23, 2025 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/23/trump-ukraine-zero-gratitude-peace-plan-international-talks The counter-proposal emerged as US, Ukrainian and international negotiators met in Switzerland. The 28-point US document leaked last week demands Ukraine hand over territory to Russia, limits the size of its army and agrees not to pursue the Kremlin for alleged war crimes. As discussions began in Geneva, Donald Trump said Ukraine had shown “zero gratitude” for US efforts to end the conflict. In a conciliatory response, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he was personally grateful to the US president for the military assistance Washington had given, beginning with Javelin missiles, which had saved Ukrainian lives. Trump’s hostile rhetoric came after a confusing weekend in which the US secretary of state, Marco Rubio, admitted the White House plan was conceived in Moscow, only to then insist the US was its author. Having been blind-sided by Washington’s initiative, Ukraine’s European allies published their Kyiv-friendly plan on Sunday. It says negotiations over territory should take place after a ceasefire is agreed and should start from the line of contact – the existing frontline. It says both parties would agree how any truce would be monitored “under US supervision”. Unlike the White House text, the European alternative does not call for Kyiv to withdraw from cities it controls in eastern Donbas. Nor does it rule out Ukraine’s membership of Nato, but points out there is no consensus over its membership. IsntLifeFunny, and MadMax 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IsntLifeFunny Posted November 24, 2025 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 24, 2025 The soft power we've lost as a nation in ten months isnt measurable but it's massive. reo, MadMax, ChemEngr79, and 2 others 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted November 24, 2025 Report Share Posted November 24, 2025 23 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: The soft power we've lost as a nation in ten months isnt measurable but it's massive. Some will come back simply by having a real, competent leader back in charge in the future (presumably). But I think it’s clear that America has permanently lost some of that soft power for good due to Trump. reo, IsntLifeFunny, MadMax, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef Posted November 24, 2025 Report Share Posted November 24, 2025 4 hours ago, Starkiller said: Some will come back simply by having a real, competent leader back in charge in the future (presumably). But I think it’s clear that America has permanently lost some of that soft power for good due to Trump. I would say more due to American voters choosing Trump. Twice. Because then even after Trump is gone, they will.still be there. IsntLifeFunny, MadMax, and ChemEngr79 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted November 24, 2025 Report Share Posted November 24, 2025 https://www.newsweek.com/russia-run-out-money-pay-soldiers-finance-minister-warns-11097984 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted November 24, 2025 Report Share Posted November 24, 2025 Because. Trump. Is. Owned. By. Putin. MadMax, and IsntLifeFunny 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted November 25, 2025 Report Share Posted November 25, 2025 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted November 25, 2025 Report Share Posted November 25, 2025 On 11/23/2025 at 7:21 PM, Starkiller said: Some will come back simply by having a real, competent leader back in charge in the future (presumably). But I think it’s clear that America has permanently lost some of that soft power for good due to Trump. No way the world trusts the US in that way anymore. The thing about being the trusted, steady, strong hand is that you are forever something else once you waver. titanruss, and MadMax 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted November 25, 2025 Report Share Posted November 25, 2025 1 hour ago, Jamalisms said: No way the world trusts the US in that way anymore. The thing about being the trusted, steady, strong hand is that you are forever something else once you waver. Do the Earls, Mercs, El Gullibos, (seriously, is he dead?) dan/fan/bots and whomever else has stopped seriously posting really care? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted November 25, 2025 Report Share Posted November 25, 2025 3 hours ago, MadMax said: Do the Earls, Mercs, El Gullibos, (seriously, is he dead?) dan/fan/bots and whomever else has stopped seriously posting really care? The snowflakes mostly just run off to their safe spaces when confronted by any competent argument that challenges their worldview. They are happier being told they are right by propagandists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted November 25, 2025 Report Share Posted November 25, 2025 6 hours ago, MadMax said: Do the Earls, Mercs, El Gullibos, (seriously, is he dead?) dan/fan/bots and whomever else has stopped seriously posting really care? Their argumen it is fairly clear. Them: We're more respected around the world! Everyone else: Studies show we're actually less trusted and more hated around the world. Them: Who cares what people outside the US think! It's happened every year. They don't really care. If they think it's true, they'll talk about it b/c it makes them feel good. If it's not true then they'll dismiss it as not mattering. MadMax, Mythos27, chef, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted November 25, 2025 Report Share Posted November 25, 2025 37 minutes ago, reo said: Their argumen it is fairly clear. Them: We're more respected around the world! Everyone else: Studies show we're actually less trusted and more hated around the world. Them: Who cares what people outside the US think! It's happened every year. They don't really care. If they think it's true, they'll talk about it b/c it makes them feel good. If it's not true then they'll dismiss it as not mattering. A lot of these conservatives still have the childish notion that fear=respect. Probably grew with abusive fathers who thought the same. We've lost an incredible amount of not only respect but more importantly influence in the Trump era. There are tons of countries that are afraid of what we can do to them financially and militarily but who in their right mind would respect what America has become? Just look at how China, a country that doesn't have to fear the US operates. They treat us like we're in the back of the class sniffing glue. Starkiller, MadMax, and OILERMAN 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted November 26, 2025 Report Share Posted November 26, 2025 This should be a massive political scandal but it won't be reo, MadMax, tgo, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 26, 2025 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2025 IsntLifeFunny, and MadMax 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted November 26, 2025 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2025 1 hour ago, OILERMAN said: This should be a massive political scandal but it won't be "Russia, Russia, Russia" MadMax 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.