Name Your Top 5 *Drafting* GMs Sans JRob

[MIKE75]

Spielman

Beane

Veach

Loomis

Telasco

 

[charleytolar]

It's not Conklin so much; I think most of you over-rate him. When he was announced all-pro with us it was pointed out how much he was protected by Delanie Walker and when he earned all-pro with the Browns, someone pointed up how there were other players statistically more "deserving." Of course, he contributed; he's not a lousy player. Seems he benefitted from having two great running backs.

 

The reason we can't forget it is because the guy that pulled the trigger on that is still pulling the trigger. He does seem to have backed away from such shenanigans the last few years, thank goodness.

[charleytolar]

7 hours ago, rns90 said:

And there it goes always returning to Conklin. 
 

Someone read that post on Conklin and tell me that Tolar isn’t nuts.

 

A couple of years ago, I found it and read it. It wasn't what I remembered. There were lots of people expressing concern about the price paid for Conklin. Why does it not surprise me that you only will ask others to do the work!

[japan]

10 hours ago, charleytolar said:

Is it more likely that the Titans were lucky that Henry was still on the board at pick 2-45 (having chosen two other players at picks 2-33 and 2-43) or that J-Robb knew the entire league had him rated lower?

 

Does BPA rule the day or is it to draft for need? If it's BPA, we have to question what we were doing be cause Henry was far and away the better player of those three... and many taken  before?

 

If it's draft for need, I pointed out elsewhere that the only RBs on the roster were scrubs like Antonio Andrews and Bishop Sankey and an unknown quantity in DeMarcus Murry coming off a disappointing FA run in Philly and a knee injury. Sounds like RB could or should have been a priority also. Maybe it was?

 

Any approach you take, we grabbed those players in the wrong order.

 

Every GM missed on Henry, but we missed on him three times before sending in the card on our fourth opportunity.

 

When you put it that way, it doesn't sound so shrewd to have bypassed Henry so often.

Fucked up logic

[japan]

9 hours ago, rns90 said:

And there it goes always returning to Conklin. 
 

Someone read that post on Conklin and tell me that Tolar isn’t nuts.

 

Tolar comes across as a guy who’s draft knowledge is stuck back in the 50’s when he ‘worked’ the oilers draft. It’s a simplistic view of how the draft works and the considerations that go into moving around the board. His biggest issue is that he has no idea how to properly evaluate a draft picker. If you view them in a vacuum then every GM looks like a stiff. 

[Thrill]

I’d say Colbert has to be number 1. He pretty much nails it whenever he takes an offensive skill guy and then he built a hell of a defense almost entirely through the draft. I assume when they move on from Big Ben (this draft?) he will nail the pick too.

[freakingeek]

First let me say, I think this has been one of the best threads TR has had in a long time. A spirited discussion with presentation of valid points/opinions from all sides supported by reasoning and data. Congrats to all for being relatively civil. (at least as civil as this board ever gets. Ha-ha!)

 

Secondly, I'm not a huge draft guy because I don't watch a ton of college football. So I have an opinion based on limited knowledge. That said, I think evaluating a GM's success is relative to the criteria. You can cherry pick stats to support nearly any argument or agenda. I think you have to use a broad view to define a GMs performance.

 

As far as personnel is concerned, star players and all pro recognition support only some their accomplishments. Good cap management and financial stability is obviously another high priority. For example...Floyd Reese. When the Titans went to the Super Bowl in 2000, 18 out of 22 starters in Atlanta were drafted by the team. That is outstanding. That means you can afford to pay and retain your "star" players. Floyd drafted well but overpaid the big names which ended up in blowing up the team a few years later. 

 

I think that long term success of the team is the best criteria. Ignore the peaks and valleys. And I think long term success depends heavily on a good balance of both drafting and retaining talent and a 30-40% roster movement every year to keep a healthy competitive roster. And as everyone knows, GMs and HCs are forever joined at the hip and so is their success. Here is my criteria for GM evaluation.

 

1) Overall winning percentage and playoff appearances

2) % of roster that was drafted by the team

3) Cap management and player contracts

4) The ability to fill roster holes in FA to allow to draft best player available

 

Overall I think JR has done a good job. Top ten for sure and possibly top 5. He's had some blunders and  some bullseyes. He IS a bit of a riverboat gambler at times. Last year was disappointing, even at 11-5 and a playoff appearance. The FA signings were a bust and it ruined a legitimate chance for a championship. Our top drafted players were non-contributing which hurt as well. Where JR can improve is his drafting in the top two rounds. Rounds 3-7 have been very good but those franchise players come out of rounds 1 and 2.

 

Hope springs eternal but I'm excited about this years draft because I think we're set up well to draft BPA and hopefully our free agent crop will contribute from the gitgo. Our draftees from last year should contribute more this year as well. 

 

Again, great thread guys! Well done!

[Mythos27]

16 hours ago, charleytolar said:

Bums really? 2nd and 3rd Round picks? Now you're making an anti-Robinson argument if you are not confident that he could have gotten someone of value-- at least one.

 

I'll just piss everyone off and remind them we could have stayed put and re-built our offensive line with Taylor Decker at 1-15. He may be no Conklin but he's started 70 out of 80 career games with the Lions since coming into the league. Better than what we are left with?

 

With our retained third-round pick, guess who was on the board? Joe Thuney who has been terrific in New England and just signed a FA contract with the Chiefs, I believe. As I recall, our penance for not staying put and having the opportunity to select Decker and Thuney was a series of FA guards and tackles until we came upon Saffold and the UNCC kid in a great third-round selection by J-Rob. Oh, and Isaiah Wilson!

 

With our back half of the 2nd Round pick in 2017 we gave up for Conklin there were a bunch of nice players who might have been ours: Zach Cunningham, OLB / Alvin Kamara, RB /  Ju-Ju Smith-Shuster, WR /  Cooper Kupp, WR. All were seemingly available when our original 2nd round pick was slotted and certainly all were available before we TRADED UP for Taywan Taylor with the 8th pick in the 3rd Round.

I will re-iterate. The vast majority of 2nd and 3rd round picks turn out to be bums. That's a factual statement. Your opinion based on what those picks could've hypothetically turned into does not override my statement. I'm glad we used a pair of hypotheticals into an actually great player at a position of need and I would do it again. I also think we should've found a way to hold on to him. Different people will disagree with me on both counts. Oh well

[rns90]

9 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

I will re-iterate. The vast majority of 2nd and 3rd round picks turn out to be bums. That's a factual statement. Your opinion based on what those picks could've hypothetically turned into does not override my statement. I'm glad we used a pair of hypotheticals into an actually great player at a position of need and I would do it again. I also think we should've found a way to hold on to him. Different people will disagree with me on both counts. Oh well

That's another thing he assumes that these other draft picks will yield starters and that's just not the case.  And he always lumps in the "we could have had Decker..."  here's the thing, maybe they liked Conklin's skill set over Decker.  I mean he always assumes you can just plug in players and they will find sucesss here.

Conklin was their guy and they valued him higher and paid the appropriate price (Giants would have taken him at 10).  And that's another point:  there is value in taking your guy, even if it costs a little more in compensation.  Otherwise you get stuck with a second choice and someone like Eli Apple.  You don't think the Giants would have easily given up a draft pick or two to secure Conklin's services in 2016 (in retrospect)?

[japan]

Just passed Robinson walking at a park in Brentwood. Man the guy has put in the lbs. Stress eating?

[AussieTitanFan08]

6 minutes ago, japan said:

Just passed Robinson walking at a park in Brentwood. Man the guy has put in the lbs. Stress eating?

 

Should of asked him what the plan for the draft was.

[japan]

10 minutes ago, AussieTitanFan08 said:

 

Should of asked him what the plan for the draft was.

Or how he sleeps at night after the Conklin pick...

[AussieTitanFan08]

1 minute ago, japan said:

Or how he sleeps at night after the Conklin pick...

 

Would imagine pretty well after picking a guy who is a multi time All Pro.

[oldschool]

48 minutes ago, AussieTitanFan08 said:

 

Would imagine pretty well after picking a guy who is a multi time All Pro.

 

For another team in the AFC....

[headhunter]

1 minute ago, oldschool said:

 

For another team in the AFC....

Can't pay everybody