titanruss Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 22 hours ago, Starkiller said: She’d get the Bernie voters. The only question what what the moderates would do if it were a general between her and a Republican. i'd guess that moderates would listen to her message and hear it more clearly rather than through the filter of several layers of media reporting that distorts what she says and makes her seem radical left rather than just your average left like most of europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 3 hours ago, oldschool said: Yes they are. You have to be brain dead to not see what not voting for Clinton got us and what not voting for the dems in the midterms and Biden in 2024 will lead to. Time to grow up. The above doesn't absolve the terrible party messaging and the ineffectual leadership of people like Schumer. It's about not letting perfect be the enemy of good and/or the lesser of two evils. Until voters wake up we'll continue to get what we deserve as a country. The actual problem I see with this response is that it’s not really a plan to fix anything or prevent anything from happening. If the plan is that voters just need to elect Democrats in perpetuity then it’s not actually a realistic plan. They need to have an actual plan to address these things you’re worried about, but they don’t. WG53, and titanruss 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 20 hours ago, headhunter said: Bernie gets votes from the young voters because he promises free stuff young people dont just want free stuff... they want to be run similarly to 1st world nations that allow their citizens to succeed and live happy and healthy. Bring the floor up and the ceiling rises too. The USA s constantly at the tail end of 1st world countries when comparing health and healthcare and education and happiness and safety and infrastrucure and a littany of other things you could think about when comparing countries to try to improve yours. republicans have this dumb idea that you have to keep others down to rise up - which is a huge lie. they also tell you that you are the one being raised up by hurting others - huge lie. you are being kept down while the richest of the rich are leeching off of you. IsntLifeFunny, Jerry Blair, and CreepingDeath 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post titanruss Posted July 7, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) On 7/6/2022 at 3:10 PM, tgo said: It eliminates it as a primary plan option though, thus the concept "single payer." As you guys know, I'm for expanding Obamacare to include a public option rather than a single-payer system. in poland last year i broke a toe. i went to the doctor 3x with zero wait, paid out of pocket, got xrays, meds, physical therapy 5 times and a cheap option for surgery if i chose to.... from a doctor that spoke 5 languages and was every bit as good as anyone you'd get in the states. paid less than two-hundred bucks with zero insurance. my girlfriends mom is having surgery on a nodule growing on her throat - government healthcare. pays nothing. her grandma just had knee replacement surgery at 83 - an elective procedure and possibly an unneccesary one conidering her age. The government healthcare would cover it but she has so many issues she decided to get private healthcare AS WELL - you can have both. Timliness mayyyy be helped with the private halthcare but not always and no matter really because the wait is similar or faster than waits here for surgery. Granma pays ~$35 per month and the surgery cost ~$55 Dont beleive the lies they tell you about healthcare here. Edited July 8, 2022 by titanruss pat, IsntLifeFunny, CreepingDeath, and 2 others 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Titans279 said: The actual problem I see with this response is that it’s not really a plan to fix anything or prevent anything from happening. If the plan is that voters just need to elect Democrats in perpetuity then it’s not actually a realistic plan. They need to have an actual plan to address these things you’re worried about, but they don’t. You are conflating two separate issues. 1. The GOP is on the path to fascism and with a religious SCOTUS, can push conservative "values" on everyone 2. While the dems suck, and they absolutely need to get their shit together, they aren't trying to destroy or subvert democracy Not voting for dems because they suck and don't have a real plan in an effort to force them to get their shit together is not the path forward when the other option is the current iteration of the GOP. pat, IsntLifeFunny, ChemEngr79, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, oldschool said: You are conflating two separate issues. 1. The GOP is on the path to fascism and with a religious SCOTUS, can push conservative "values" on everyone 2. While the dems suck, and they absolutely need to get their shit together, they aren't trying to destroy or subvert democracy Not voting for dems because they suck and don't have a real plan in an effort to force them to get their shit together is not the path forward when the other option is the current iteration of the GOP. Right. Imagine the house is on fire. "I'm don't like Mom because she's trying to use a bucket to put out the fire when she should be using a house or calling the fire department." Meanwhile Dad is the one lighting the house on fire and taking a shit in the middle of the flame, laughing gleefully. Democrats may be sucky fuck ups, but Republicans are literally destroying the basic fundamentals of American democracy and people honestly don't seem to care enough to do something about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 3 hours ago, oldschool said: Yes they are. You have to be brain dead to not see what not voting for Clinton got us and what not voting for the dems in the midterms and Biden in 2024 will lead to. Time to grow up. The above doesn't absolve the terrible party messaging and the ineffectual leadership of people like Schumer. It's about not letting perfect be the enemy of good and/or the lesser of two evils. Until voters wake up we'll continue to get what we deserve as a country. again... -more democrats wanted bernie and their voice to matter - not more of the same... -bernie had more supporters during the primaries and the more excited followers.... -democrats picked hillary anyway - against the makority of their followers... -this proved to these people - true or not - that it was "more of the same" and their voices didnt matter. -so some of these people abstained completely because they realized they believed they dont matter... -some of these people actually voted for Trump because at least it was different than the sytem that told them they dont matter This was 1million% the fault of the democratic leadership because "it was her turn". They didnt listen to their base. Was it smart to let an orange moron take office? No.. absolutely not. Should they have voted for hillary instead and just dealt with it? Yep. but dont blame the voters. blame the party heads who did what they wanted despite their followers telling them they wanted something else. WG53 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 28 minutes ago, Bink said: Right. Imagine the house is on fire. "I'm don't like Mom because she's trying to use a bucket to put out the fire when she should be using a house or calling the fire department." Meanwhile Dad is the one lighting the house on fire and taking a shit in the middle of the flame, laughing gleefully. Democrats may be sucky fuck ups, but Republicans are literally destroying the basic fundamentals of American democracy and people honestly don't seem to care enough to do something about it. This is the analogy you choose? Both result in a burnt down house! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, Titans279 said: This is the analogy you choose? Both result in a burnt down house! Yes. But the point is you should be actively concerned that one party is lighting the house on fire and gleefully doing so. You should be more alarmed about insanity than ineptitude. This isn't rocket science. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Bink said: Yes. But the point is you should be actively concerned that one party is lighting the house on fire and gleefully doing so. You should be more alarmed about insanity than ineptitude. This isn't rocket science. I am. I'm also concerned that the people who should be fighting the fire are inept. In your analogy, I'm an active supporter of the mother. I am also deeply concerned that the mother is doing nothing to actually save the house. When I suggest maybe mom should call the fire department, you're the brother telling me to grow up and support the mom because at least she didn't start the fire! WG53 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 19 minutes ago, Titans279 said: I am. I'm also concerned that the people who should be fighting the fire are inept. In your analogy, I'm an active supporter of the mother. I am also deeply concerned that the mother is doing nothing to actually save the house. When I suggest maybe mom should call the fire department, you're the brother telling me to grow up and support the mom because at least she didn't start the fire! wrong. We are telling you to help your mother call the fucking fire department! Titans279, pat, and Jerry Blair 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Bink said: Right. Imagine the house is on fire. "I'm don't like Mom because she's trying to use a bucket to put out the fire when she should be using a house or calling the fire department." Meanwhile Dad is the one lighting the house on fire and taking a shit in the middle of the flame, laughing gleefully. Democrats may be sucky fuck ups, but Republicans are literally destroying the basic fundamentals of American democracy and people honestly don't seem to care enough to do something about it. In this example, the house burns down anyway because moms an idiot. Titans279, and WG53 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 38 minutes ago, oldschool said: wrong. We are telling you to help your mother call the fucking fire department! This is a tortured metaphor at this point. It's pretty telling IMO that you guys basically are not willing to engage with the fact that Democrats have no plans to fix anything even if they maintain control in 2022. Even if they did, when "plans" meet reality, reality wins (see: 2020 Democratic "plans"). WG53 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Just now, Titans279 said: This is a tortured metaphor at this point. It's pretty telling IMO that you guys basically are not willing to engage with the fact that Democrats have no plans to fix anything even if they maintain control in 2022. Even if they did, when "plans" meet reality, reality wins (see: 2020 Democratic "plans"). They have lots of plans to help lots of different causes. Those plans are being held up by two senators at the moment who give cover to others who may or may not be on board. tgo, and pat 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IsntLifeFunny Posted July 7, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) Sometimes I don’t think you guys don’t appreciate the differences in the two parties. This is coming from someone who was an independent before Trump. The Dems have a ton of fairly grandiose plans, many of which I don’t fully agree with, but they’re at least cogent plans to attempt to help the country, be it through individual rights, voting rights, infrastructure, green energy…etc. I can’t name a single plan from Republicans except to take rights away and cut taxes. Edited July 7, 2022 by IsntLifeFunny 'Nator, tgo, ChesterCopperpot1, and 3 others 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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