IsntLifeFunny Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, reo said: If Biden wins the nomination, expect a huge push of propaganda targeting just that thought in people and a push to spread conspiracies of how some establishment DNC (ala deep state) some how screwed Bernie. This will be done in an attempt to target voters like you. Just a nod to what's probably coming. Regardless of my preference, this is 100% correct. reo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Cornrow Wallace said: Obama did not even try. He caved immediately when he didn't have to. Do you understand the massive amount of pressure he could have put on people like Lieberman and Nelson? He chose not to. Do you remember 2009 and 2010? I do. No, I do not understand how much pressure he could have put on Ben Nelson in fucking Nebraska. I live in Nebraska, it's conservative as fuck here. Please explain to me how Obama could have pressured Ben Nelson on healthcare. It's Obama that was pressured by Senate Democrats like Nelson and Leiberman, it would be self defeating for Obama to "pressure" those senators and it would have tanked the entire effort. Edited January 29, 2020 by tgo rns90 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 17 minutes ago, tgo said: Lol, What? No they could not have, wtf are you talking about? You think they would have gotten Ben Nelson or Max Baucus or Tom Daschle or Arlen Specter's vote on single payer? Joe Leiberman? "Sens. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) and Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) both said a Medicare "buy-in" option for those aged 55-64 was a deal breaker. "I'm concerned that it's the forerunner of single payer, the ultimate single-payer plan, maybe even more directly than the public option," Nelson said on CBS's "Face the Nation." Lieberman said Democrats should stop looking for a public option "compromise" and simply scrap the idea altogether. "You've got to take out the Medicare buy-in. You've got to forget about the public option," he said." https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/71967-lieberman-nelson-public-option-compromise-still-cause-for-concern Lol they didn't even have close to the votes for single payer. And watch and see how "ineffective" the Democrats are under Sanders hah. Btw, it was Joe Biden who convinced his close friend Arlen Specter to switch parties as the 60th vote if you didn't know that. And lol at "Obama's failures" and him being a "coward" - give me a fucking break. He's likely by far the best president of your lifetime unless you're like 70 years old. One of these days you're going to realize the difference between political realities and fantasy. Dont engage the zealot. Clueless. It took wheeling Byrd out on his deathbed to get the fucking Republican-like heathplan passed. Pragidealist, and tgo 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornrow Wallace Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 First, you don't start negotiations with a pre-compromised plan. We could have had a public option* if the alternative was single-payer. Instead we got the full-on Republican plan that they moved to after dropping even the public option without a fight. And guess what, the opposition he compromised with still called it socialism. We could have done a lot better, and Obama deserves a lot of the blame for what happened. He could've been selling health care reform directly to the people in Nebraska and all over the country if he actually believed in it. *this is what I meant before, not single payer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragidealist Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 46 minutes ago, tgo said: It's so frustrating that we're not even dealing in reality now. That is today's politics. Frustrating, depressing, even hilarious some days. The ironic thing is we live in an information age where one would think we would be data, information, and fact driven- since so much of that easily found. Instead we find ourselves in a reality where selective fantasy drives decisions. IsntLifeFunny, tgo, and oldschool 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornrow Wallace Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 41 minutes ago, Pragidealist said: That is today's politics. Frustrating, depressing, even hilarious some days. The ironic thing is we live in an information age where one would think we would be data, information, and fact driven- since so much of that easily found. Instead we find ourselves in a reality where selective fantasy drives decisions. you're quoting someone who has their (non fact-driven) viewpoints provided to them by Third Way. here's a good recap from 2010 if you don't remember how it went down: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/no-we-cant-198655/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornrow Wallace Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Even Nelson was initially not as staunchly against the public option as you're suggesting: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/public-health-care-plan-g_n_208679 but you don't care about facts as much as you suggest either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Cornrow Wallace said: First, you don't start negotiations with a pre-compromised plan. We could have had a public option* if the alternative was single-payer. Instead we got the full-on Republican plan that they moved to after dropping even the public option without a fight. And guess what, the opposition he compromised with still called it socialism. We could have done a lot better, and Obama deserves a lot of the blame for what happened. He could've been selling health care reform directly to the people in Nebraska and all over the country if he actually believed in it. *this is what I meant before, not single payer Do you honestly think Obama, his aides, and Pelosi didn't do a congressional headcount of votes and know what was possible to get passed? They barely got the ACA passed and that took budget reconciliation and bypassing the senate filibuster to do it. Starkiller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, ctm said: Do you honestly think Obama, his aides, and Pelosi didn't do a congressional headcount of votes and know what was possible to get passed? They barely got the ACA passed and that took budget reconciliation and bypassing the senate filibuster to do it. Bernie bros dont understand how the government works. They want to burn it down just like Trumpers do. tgo, and 'Nator 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Sanders can win, but has a lower chance than Biden does of winning. /thread tgo, and 'Nator 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, tgo said: The most scary thing about Biden is that his son sat on a Ukrainian board for money and that he sticks his foot in his mouth sometimes. The most scary thing about Sanders is that he wants a socialist "political revolution", taking a wrecking ball to the modern economy, inspired by his time in the Soviet Union whilst praising fucking Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, and Ortega Sandanista in terms of their own violent populist regimes. Wait till women start seeing ads about Bernie Sanders and his writing about rape fantasies. It's out there, just google it. He has a lot of skeletons that haven't gone mainstream. Trump won't hesitate. tgo, and oldschool 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Bernie is a communist, unlikable ass and wrong about almost everything. And the scary thing is that he is a threat because there are many dumbasses who will vote for him. Cornrow Wallace 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 The crunchies should take some time and study the map of the last 4 elections. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornrow Wallace Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 18 hours ago, ctm said: Do you honestly think Obama, his aides, and Pelosi didn't do a congressional headcount of votes and know what was possible to get passed? They barely got the ACA passed and that took budget reconciliation and bypassing the senate filibuster to do it. Do you honestly believe Obama was fighting for a public option after he got into office? He was not. He had the greatest grassroots organization the Democratic party had ever seen and straight up abandoned it immediately after getting into the White House. They would have had sixty votes for a public option if they fought for it. Starkiller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornrow Wallace Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 16 hours ago, oldschool said: The crunchies should take some time and study the map of the last 4 elections. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states go ahead and keep believing that all of Sanders supporters are "crunchies" if it makes you feel safe. he's become the front-runner in this election. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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