scine09 Posted October 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, rns90 said: I suspect that one of the selling points that JR made to AAS when he interviewed and got the GM job was that he would build the team around Mariota. So, in this instance coming off the 2016 season, there was no chance that JR was going to take Mahomes. This team just wasn't going to do that. They are behind the times when it comes to that aspect of qb evaluations. Huh? Why would the team have moved on from Mariota after 2016? He looked like he was on his way to a very good career. So naturally they were going to try and build around Mariota, not find a potential replacement. Again, there isn't a team in the league who would have done what you and BudAdams are suggesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rns90 Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 minute ago, scine09 said: Huh? Why would the team have moved on from Mariota after 2016? He looked like he was on his way to a very good career. So naturally they were going to try and build around Mariota, not find a potential replacement. Again, there isn't a team in the league who would have done what you and BudAdams are suggesting. Um, I was agreeing with you. There was no chance they would have taken a qb with the #5 pick. When I say they are behind the times, they aren't really progressive in seeking out and developing a qb until they absolutely have to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 minute ago, rns90 said: Um, I was agreeing with you. There was no chance they would have taken a qb with the #5 pick. When I say they are behind the times, they aren't really progressive in seeking out and developing a qb until they absolutely have to. But that wasn't the time to do it. Look at it this way. I know it's hard to do, but think back to what the consensus was on Mariota at the end of the 2016 season. Rising star who was one of the future stars at the position, along with Winston and Carr. Why would any of those teams have even thought about taking a QB? It would have made no sense and would have been a complete waste of a resource knowing only what they knew then. Obviously if there was concern about the leg (for both the Titans and Raiders with Carr) then obviously you could theoretically hedge your bets later in the draft and draft someone just in case. But if there weren't concerns then it wouldn't make sense. He's trying to equate Arizona's situation with the #10 pick who showed nothing and Seattle's position with a career backup signed as a starter and drafting a QB not in the first round to the Titans of 2017. And they're not even remotely similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, scine09 said: You're looking at it as if they knew how all of these players would pan out. They didn't. Back in 2017 most people thought Mariota was on his way to being a very good if not top QB. The Cardinals ditched Rosen who was flat out terrible last year. Russell Wilson was a unique situation and he obviously wasn't a first round pick. Your argument makes no sense at all. Like I said, there's not one person who would have done what you're suggesting. My argument is simple. The Titans boxed themselves as an organization into building around a player that they over drafted from need. They operated from a position where a QB was off the table because they drafted Mariota in 2015. In the following two seasons, they had draft positions where they could have picked from Goff, Wentz, Mahomes, or Watson. All of which are better QB's than Mariota. I understand the conventional thought process that they took. What I am saying is that such thinking is short sighted. Especially when the players you simply eliminate from your board turn out to be top tier caliber players. Bill Walsh traded for Steve Young when he had Joe Montana in the midst of their SB runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Just now, BudAdams said: My argument is simple. The Titans boxed themselves as an organization into building around a player that they over drafted from need. They operated from a position where a QB was off the table. In the following two seasons, they had draft positions where they could have picked from Goff, Wentz, Mahomes, or Watson. All of which are better QB's than Mariota. I understand the conventional thought process that they took. What I am saying is that such thinking is short sighted. Especially when the players you simply eliminate from your board turn out to be top tier caliber players. Bill Walsh traded for Steve Young when he had Joe Montana in the midst of their SB runs. No one had any idea who was going to turn into what in 2017. What they did know is they had a QB coming off a big season and was going into year 3. That's not the time to be taking a different QB with that kind of a pick. If you didn't like Mariota at that time fine. I'd suspect you were in a small minority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, BudAdams said: IDK. Empty seats/fan apathy, a mediocre team, no playoffs, a failed QB plan. Certainly not the plan JRob sold to AAS for sure when got control over the football operations. Since jrob didn't draft Mariota he's likely protected and can survive if Vrabel turns out to be a bad hire. The real question is whether ownership is forcing Mariota to start or if Vrabel truly believes he can win with the guy. it's obvious the offense has been built to be high powered and Mariota can't take advantage of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callidus Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, JakePA_Titan said: I somewhat disagree. When things are going right, Mariota can look damn good. When the players around him execute and are playing well, he does. But that's him being dependent on others which is not ideal for a QB. DENs D is not what they have been the past 3 years and now that they lost Chubb, even better. I wouldn't be surprised if we come out fired up for this game, Saffold and Lewan will have bounce back games. Mariota will have his typical 21/33 for 220 and 1-2 TDs and will look good. Because the team is hungry for a win. Im not saying mariota cant stiil be effective now and then. I still think he would be a good backup. I just have lost confidence in his ability 2 ever become consistent. He looked very good against the Falcons but iv come 2 belive you will never do that more than 4-5 times a year with a equal number of crap games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, scine09 said: Huh? Why would the team have moved on from Mariota after 2016? He looked like he was on his way to a very good career. Again, there isn't a team in the league who would have done what you and BudAdams are suggesting. I looked at the 2016 annual QB rankings which considers input from a lot of different executives and coaches around the league, and they were absolutely raving about Mariota. One said he'd be a top 5 QB, another said that he would be a tier 1 QB if he was on a better team. Either there are a lot of bad evaluators, or he regressed significantly. Comparing the tape of him in 2015-16 to now answers that relatively quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, abc2330 said: I looked at the 2016 annual QB rankings which considers input from a lot of different executives and coaches around the league, and they were absolutely raving about Mariota. One said he'd be a top 5 QB, another said that he would be a tier 1 QB if he was on a better team. Either there are a lot of bad evaluators, or he regressed significantly. Comparing the tape of him in 2015-16 to now answers that relatively quickly. That's my point. In no universe would anyone have taken a QB #5 in 2017. Or anywhere in the first round for that matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 In a world where Bill Walsh can bring in Steve Young to compete with Joe Montana and where John Schneider can consider drafting Mahomes when he has Russell Wilson (widely reported Mahomes was a consideration), I'd say that a thought process that doesn't consider competition/upgrading of talent is a problem. I absolutely believe they never ever considered drafting a QB in 2016 or 2017 even though they could have. That's the gripe and that's even with Mariota coming off a good 2nd year. If Seattle gave it some though with Russell Wilson in place, it's not outlandish to suggest the Titans should have considered it. Of course, that might be opening up a window we don't want to know. What if the Titans had Mariota evaluated as better than Mahomes or Watson? God help us then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Russell Wilson isn’t comparable since Flynn was a journeyman backup with few starts. Scine is right. This argument is asinine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 52 minutes ago, BudAdams said: In a world where Bill Walsh can bring in Steve Young to compete with Joe Montana and where John Schneider can consider drafting Mahomes when he has Russell Wilson (widely reported Mahomes was a consideration), I'd say that a thought process that doesn't consider competition/upgrading of talent is a problem. I absolutely believe they never ever considered drafting a QB in 2016 or 2017 even though they could have. That's the gripe and that's even with Mariota coming off a good 2nd year. If Seattle gave it some though with Russell Wilson in place, it's not outlandish to suggest the Titans should have considered it. Of course, that might be opening up a window we don't want to know. What if the Titans had Mariota evaluated as better than Mahomes or Watson? God help us then. You know that's completely unrealistic to spend a #5 pick on a QB that year. But given their patriots roots, I'm guessing they are looking for a traditional accurate pocket passer who'll stick to the plan. Being linked with Daniel Jones made a lot of sense. I'm guessing if we had the #5 pick this year, we'd go after a guy like Burrow or Fromm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaOiler Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 11:36 AM, wiscotitansfan said: You think Mariota is the "one reason" we won that game.... Continue trying to mock me how other positions are crucial in a team win Mariota was not one of the bigger reasons we won in Arrowhead There were a lot of reasons, but all things equal minus Mariota...we lose. I understand people not having faith in him right now, but to try rewriting history is absurd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaTitan Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 6 hours ago, japan said: He won't be under any pressure in 2020 as we will be drafting a new QB. Don't agree. While everyone will know it's not his fault entirely, there will and should be pressure on him to win. This is a production business and he's getting paid a ton of money to string some winning seasons together. He knew we had MM when he took the job. He's clearly trying to win with him, but if that fails it rests with him. I was in Nashville on business earlier this year in the off-season and saw Steve Underwood in the airport sitting at the gate for Houston. I told him I was a fan and that I though we made progress but needed to take the next step. He thanked me, but quickly said it's not been good enough and the team needs to start winning now. His tone was super serious, and not a fluffy fan response. He stuck me as a real hard-ass. He's also super short and the mustache looks crazy in person. If this season is a flop and were searching for a new QB, no one should get a pass... Just how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 @BudAdams, I assume if I go back to the 2017 draft time I'll find posts with you saying the Titans should take Mahomes or Watson, correct? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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