scine09 Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 Just now, OILERMAN said: I'm pretty sure he did that on purpose and was using the phrase as I did. Did you notice jonboy used the term "welcome aboard"! Fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, scine09 said: It actually might be THE dumbest argument in the history of the message board. I'm being serious. Because it literally makes zero sense. I want to know of an argument that makes less sense than this one that's been poached on this board. I personally am not going to rip Robinson for not drafting a QB in 2017. However..... Just because you draft a QB doesn't mean you have to get rid of MM at the time. Abenjami argued for drafting Wentz or Goff at the time. After two seasons they should have known what MM's limitations were. In fact why the hell don't they seem to know even now? Why didn't they have an open QB competition this training camp? Drafting a QB in 2017 isn't any dumber than continuing to trot MM out there now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, OILERMAN said: I personally am not going to rip Robinson for not drafting a QB in 2017. However..... Just because you draft a QB doesn't mean you have to get rid of MM at the time. Abenjami argued for drafting Wentz or Goff at the time. After two seasons they should have known what MM's limitations were. In fact why the hell don't they seem to know even now? Why didn't they have an open QB competition this training camp? Drafting a QB in 2017 isn't any dumber than continuing to trot MM out there now Drafting a QB in round 1 of 2016 or 2017 with Mariota still on the roster would have been a fireable offense IMO. Now if you were going to trade Mariota and could get a haul that's a whole different story. I actually started a thread about possibly trading Mariota after the 2015 season, keeping the #1 pick and drafting a QB while adding a ton of other assets. It wasn't met well. Not that I thought at the time that they should do it, just as something to think about. But drafting a QB at that time AND keeping Mariota on the roster? Just senseless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
japan Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, OILERMAN said: I personally am not going to rip Robinson for not drafting a QB in 2017. However..... Just because you draft a QB doesn't mean you have to get rid of MM at the time. Abenjami argued for drafting Wentz or Goff at the time. After two seasons they should have known what MM's limitations were. In fact why the hell don't they seem to know even now? Why didn't they have an open QB competition this training camp? Drafting a QB in 2017 isn't any dumber than continuing to trot MM out there now This scenario you mention is definitely not something a second year GM pulls off, especially one who had a coach forced on him. And Mariota was coming off of his good run that even had you on board! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, OILERMAN said: I personally am not going to rip Robinson for not drafting a QB in 2017. However..... Just because you draft a QB doesn't mean you have to get rid of MM at the time. Abenjami argued for drafting Wentz or Goff at the time. After two seasons they should have known what MM's limitations were. In fact why the hell don't they seem to know even now? Why didn't they have an open QB competition this training camp? Drafting a QB in 2017 isn't any dumber than continuing to trot MM out there now The more I think about it the more I'm convinced the mandate to play Mariota comes from the ownership group. it's the only thing that makes sense. its almost like Jrob and Vrabel are showing them Mariota isn't the answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, japan said: This scenario you mention is definitely not something a second year GM pulls off, especially one who had a coach forced on him. And Mariota was coming off of his good run that even had you on board! Can you imagine if someone suggested keeping Mariota AND drafting one of those QBs? They'd have been laughed off the board. The other thing that he's not taking into account, with any of the 4 QBs (Goff/Wentz/Mahomes/Watson) is they all had just as many question, maybe more, than Mariota did coming into the league. I think Mahomes is obviously excellent, Watson is very good but the other two I'm not nor have I ever been crazy about. I thought LA and Philly jumped the gun signing them both long-term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaTitan Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, oldschool said: The more I think about it the more I'm convinced the mandate to play Mariota comes from the ownership group. it's the only thing that makes sense. its almost like Jrob and Vrabel are showing them Mariota isn't the answer. LOL!!! Its just the only thing that makes sense that doesn't destroy the conspiracy...sorry birthers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, VaTitan said: LOL!!! Its just the only thing that makes sense that doesn't destroy the conspiracy...sorry birthers! We know Blake. Don't you have a radio spot to prepare for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 5 hours ago, scine09 said: It actually might be THE dumbest argument in the history of the message board. I'm being serious. Because it literally makes zero sense. I want to know of an argument that makes less sense than this one that's been poached on this board. Really? Why did you post this in February 2016? And in this thread you and I actually agreed that such a thing was unlikely for a variety of reasons (conventional thinking/fear of risk, etc.). My gripe on this is that I do not believe the Titans ever considered deviating from Mariota as the guy and as such didn't explore the alternative options in 2016 or 2017 when there was plenty of evidence that he was limited in his ceiling. Even Goff is better than Mariota and there's no question Wentz, Mahomes, and Watson are. If John Schneider can contemplate drafting Patrick Mahomes when he has Russell Wilson, I'd hope the Titans would have considered the QB options they had full control of as an alternative to Mariota. Clearly, they didn't and now they are living with the consequences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 3 hours ago, scine09 said: Drafting a QB in round 1 of 2016 or 2017 with Mariota still on the roster would have been a fireable offense IMO. Now if you were going to trade Mariota and could get a haul that's a whole different story. I actually started a thread about possibly trading Mariota after the 2015 season, keeping the #1 pick and drafting a QB while adding a ton of other assets. It wasn't met well. Not that I thought at the time that they should do it, just as something to think about. But drafting a QB at that time AND keeping Mariota on the roster? Just senseless. I never said keep Mariota on the roster but that also was more than feasible cap wise on rookie deals. My assumption would have been that the team would have drafted the new QB and traded Mariota at a time when he had real value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, BudAdams said: Really? Why did you post this in February 2016? And in this thread you and I actually agreed that such a thing was unlikely for a variety of reasons (conventional thinking/fear of risk, etc.). My gripe on this is that I do not believe the Titans ever considered deviating from Mariota as the guy and as such didn't explore the alternative options in 2016 or 2017 when there was plenty of evidence that he was limited in his ceiling. Even Goff is better than Mariota and there's no question Wentz, Mahomes, and Watson are. If John Schneider can contemplate drafting Patrick Mahomes when he has Russell Wilson, I'd hope the Titans would have considered the QB options they had full control of as an alternative to Mariota. Clearly, they didn't and now they are living with the consequences. I literally just told Oilerman earlier today that I created that thread. I didn't forget about it. What I said was that it's something to consider. What I didn't advocate nor would I ever is drafting a QB in round 1 AND keeping Mariota. That would be a fireable offense. As far as who's better and who's not better, what we know now is not what we knew then. What we knew then was that Mariota was promising and all these QBs had question marks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, BudAdams said: I never said keep Mariota on the roster but that also was more than feasible cap wise on rookie deals. My assumption would have been that the team would have drafted the new QB and traded Mariota at a time when he had real value. If you thought all this, why didn't you post it at the time, and not wait until more than 2 years when Mariota's value has gone way down and Mahomes/Watson have done well so far? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenIsLegend Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 14 hours ago, BudAdams said: Probably not but again I’m not the GM. My point is that they didn’t consider it and they certainly should have. Would the Titans be better off today with Mahomes or Watson instead of Mariota and Davis? absolutely and that’s the point. The draft is a crapshoot more often than not. Generally, I agree with your takes. Maybe I don’t like the delivery usually, but I tend to agree more than disagree. This take, however, is completely asinine. You’re acting as if you (or other GMs) have a crystal ball that tells them exactly how a situation will pan out, and I suspect it’s because you’re so frustrated with Mariota and this regime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 It's a simple point that I've made and people are intentionally being obtuse about it. I'm more irritated by the Mariota or bust mindset they took as I think it's pretty obvious that's what they did and are still doing at least for 2019. The Titans over drafted a player out of need with limitations in 2015. They went all in on the Mariota or bust plan for 5 years. In the same time, they had control of the draft where they passed up 4 better QB's because they were Mariota or bust. The organization chose the Mariota path and we've seen coaching changes and personnel moves but the same mediocrity and limited schemes on offense because of it. Guys like Andy Reid, John Schneider, and Sean Payton knew Mahomes was special. Deshaun Watson coming out was more accomplished and a better version of what Mariota was supposed to be. The draft can be a crapshoot, sure, but it's my opinion that the Titans just simply took the easy, safe way. That's great if it works out but your fucked if it doesn't. Right now, it looks like they passed up 4 Pro Bowl QB's and one probable HOF caliber one because they played it safe and conventional with a limited QB. The questions fans should be asking of the team, as the bar for the Owner and GM should be high, is the process. Did they objectively self scout Mariota (good/bad) after the new regime came in? Did they objectively scout the top QB prospects in the following years (2016 on) and compare to what they had? Did they think out of the box, considering things like rookie contract cap impacts, injury rate of mobile QB's, trade value for a young, 1st contract QB asset? I know this - their QB plan has sucked. Up until Tannehill, they never had a viable option for if/when Mariota was injured. Nor a good one when he plays poorly. Now we want the same regime to go through the QB selection process again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryBoats Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, BudAdams said: It's a simple point that I've made and people are intentionally being obtuse about it. I'm more irritated by the Mariota or bust mindset they took as I think it's pretty obvious that's what they did and are still doing at least for 2019. The Titans over drafted a player out of need with limitations in 2015. They went all in on the Mariota or bust plan for 5 years. In the same time, they had control of the draft where they passed up 4 better QB's because they were Mariota or bust. The organization chose the Mariota path and we've seen coaching changes and personnel moves but the same mediocrity and limited schemes on offense because of it. Guys like Andy Reid, John Schneider, and Sean Payton knew Mahomes was special. Deshaun Watson coming out was more accomplished and a better version of what Mariota was supposed to be. The draft can be a crapshoot, sure, but it's my opinion that the Titans just simply took the easy, safe way. That's great if it works out but your fucked if it doesn't. Right now, it looks like they passed up 4 Pro Bowl QB's and one probable HOF caliber one because they played it safe and conventional with a limited QB. The questions fans should be asking of the team, as the bar for the Owner and GM should be high, is the process. Did they objectively self scout Mariota (good/bad) after the new regime came in? Did they objectively scout the top QB prospects in the following years (2016 on) and compare to what they had? Did they think out of the box, considering things like rookie contract cap impacts, injury rate of mobile QB's, trade value for a young, 1st contract QB asset? I know this - their QB plan has sucked. Up until Tannehill, they never had a viable option for if/when Mariota was injured. Nor a good one when he plays poorly. Now we want the same regime to go through the QB selection process again? They've never going through one. If that was their sole focus, I'd gives them a shot. The GM's job was to make Mariota look good. That's why the previous regime was fired. Now that we can move past that, we may have a shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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