Really Disappointed in Vrabel

[BudsOilers]

I was more definitive and I think 2019 to date is going the way I expected.  The equity that Robinson/Vrabel have built up with the 9-7 seasons can quickly erode.  Consider this from an owner's perspective.

• In year 4, where the team is almost entirely built by Robinson, is 4th in the division and this is with the Colts losing Luck to a sudden retirement, the Texans in some state of disarray, and the Jaguars playing a rookie 6th round QB.
• Local fans are not buying tickets and most likely not buying merchandise.   The Bills had 25 K in the stadium.
• The product and team are boring and more importantly not winning while being boring.  The most visible players are Lewan and Walker. 
• The GM from day 1 made moves to build around Mariota yet failed to realize or flat out ignored the player's obvious limitations.  In the process, said GM passed on a handful of QB options and only this year added a starting caliber alternative.  He drafted a seldom used WR instead of Mahomes or Watson when a market for Mariota actually existed (Chip Kelly).  The one developmental QB they drafted, Falk, was horrid.  Add that they certainly could/should have considered a mid round pick on Minshew knowing Mariota/Tannehill are only under contract for 2019.
• GM convinces owner to fire HC after a playoff season to maximize the return on Mariota and his draft picks.  In the process, GM gets to hire the HC that's more controllable.
• Upon making the coaching change, this regime states that winning one playoff game is not enough and that they will go from good to great.  Well, they didn't make the playoffs in 2018 and sure don't look to be headed there in 2019.

 

A mediocre or losing season will not re-assure AAS and KA that the football plan is sound.  If anything, especially if it gets worse, they will have to really examine whether this regime is capable of building a championship caliber team.  I know this - there's no way one can be confident that this group has a good handle on evaluating and maximizing QB play.  I also know that if they finish 4th in the division and miss the playoffs in a very winnable situation and without major injuries, it's hard to defend.

[japan]

We’re 2-3 not 0-5. Let’s see how the season plays out but JRob isn’t under any pressure, for sure, this season.

[BudsOilers]

40 minutes ago, japan said:

We’re 2-3 not 0-5. Let’s see how the season plays out but JRob isn’t under any pressure, for sure, this season.

 

IDK.  Empty seats/fan apathy, a mediocre team, no playoffs, a failed QB plan. 

 

Certainly not the plan JRob sold to AAS for sure when got control over the football operations. 

[Callidus]

On 10/7/2019 at 2:07 PM, JakePA_Titan said:

 

His functionally retarded ass has been the only one to make Mariota look good. And only OC that has us a playoff win in....how long again?

 

How good was that offensive genius in LaFleur last year? You were probably jumping up and down when we got him, huh? 

 

How well is Arthur Smith doing? Seems like they didnt do much better than that retard....

 

But you've been more happy with the past 21 games than you were in 2016 and 2017, right? 

 

Robiskie had a much less talented offense than the one we have today and one we had last year. 

 

Why did we have more success with that retard? Maybe you're too dumb to answer that....

I think some of that had 2 di with mariota not being completely broken till year 4. He was still just inconsistent in years 1-3. This year and last year he looks like a totally different guy. I dont any oc or teams around him could make him look good even half the time any more

[Number9]

51 minutes ago, JoelinBellevue said:

This has to be coming from AAS.

 

12 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

 

IDK.  Empty seats/fan apathy, a mediocre team, no playoffs, a failed QB plan. 

 

Certainly not the plan JRob sold to AAS for sure when got control over the football operations. 

 

It started with the one restriction placed on the new GM.  Keep Mike Mularkey.  Mike and Marcus were a package deal.  Mike was the interim coach she chose to replace KW and protect MM.   Mariota was her QB and he was the number one part of the deal in reality.   JRob was stuck with Marcus no matter what happened.  He got rid of Mularkey with the promise he could get more out of Mariota.  If he had kept Mularkey, then he could blame him. 

 

Owners who don't know football should stay out of the football part of the operations.

[TerryBoats]

17 minutes ago, JakePA_Titan said:

I somewhat disagree. When things are going right, Mariota can look damn good. 

 

When the players around him execute and are playing well, he does. But that's him being dependent on others which is not ideal for a QB. 

 

DENs D is not what they have been the past 3 years and now that they lost Chubb, even better. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we come out fired up for this game, Saffold and Lewan will have bounce back games. Mariota will have his typical 21/33 for 220 and 1-2 TDs and will look good. Because the team is hungry for a win. 

He plays well so infrequently that you can chalk his good moments up to a blind squirrel finding a nut.  Most guys do when given enough opportunities.  It just looks better because he isn't throwing INT s like Jay Cutler in between those, his defense keeps him from ever truly having to air it out, and the offense makes enough mistakes that it takes some heat off of him.   Overall, he's quite bad .

[BudsOilers]

10 minutes ago, Number9 said:

It started with the one restriction placed on the new GM.  Keep Mike Mularkey.  Mike and Marcus were a package deal.  Mike was the interim coach she chose to replace KW and protect MM.   Mariota was her QB and he was the number one part of the deal in reality.   JRob was stuck with Marcus no matter what happened.  He got rid of Mularkey with the promise he could get more out of Mariota.  If he had kept Mularkey, then he could blame him. 

 

Owners who don't know football should stay out of the football part of the operations.

 

Well, the setup organizationally when Robinson was hired very clearly outlined separate but equal reporting to the Team President for the GM and HC.  It was the same structure they had with Diamond, Fisher, and Reese.  Clearly any GM candidate had to be comfortable with working with a HC that didn't report to them.

 

A year later, Robinson got a promotion to EVP/GM and clearly started butting heads with Mularkey over personnel usage. The struggles of Mariota, which we can now see were not so coaching staff driven, gave Robinson the juice to get Mularkey out unless he made massive staff changes, which surely Mularkey wasn't going to do much like Munchak before him.  While that move certainly played to ownership's heartstrings - i.e. have Mariota work out - it also inadvertently bonds Robinson more to Mariota than before.  Now we have Robinson's hand picked coaches having the same issues. 

 

Meanwhile, the personnel moves have done nothing to hedge against Mariota long term.  Tannehill was an upgrade over Gabbert who was an upgrade over Cassel but no QB is under contract for 2020.  Add in that under Robinson, they appear to have drafted a WR who's not a generational talent over two QB's that may be in Mahomes and Watson.  Add in a guy like Minshew who was readily available as a mid round pick and he looked more like a #2 overall pick than Mariota does.

 

I don't know AAS but I can certainly imagine that ownership will be pretty deflated and questioning this regime if 2019 is a colossal failure - i.e. non-playoffs given the divisional landscape, fan apathy/empty seats, and having no solution in place for the most important position in the sport.  Do I trust this regime to pick a good QB?  I've seen no evidence to suggest it.

[scine09]

Yeah, Robinson was going to take a new QB with the #5 overall pick with Mariota coming off a 26 TD, 9 INT performance in his 2nd year in the league and many thinking he was on his way to being a superstar.  Okay.

 

Some of you people just make comments just to make them without really thinking.

 

If Robinson had drafted either of those QBs in 2017 he would have been absolutely crucified by both the local and national media.  And rightly so.  It would have made zero sense and a complete waste of resources.  No one had any idea at that point how things would work out both for Mariota and the other QBs.  In fact KC was roundly questioned for taking Mahomes so early.

[BudsOilers]

9 minutes ago, scine09 said:

Yeah, Robinson was going to take a new QB with the #5 overall pick with Mariota coming off a 26 TD, 9 INT performance in his 2nd year in the league and many thinking he was on his way to being a superstar.  Okay.

 

Some of you people just make comments just to make them without really thinking.

 

If Robinson had drafted either of those QBs in 2017 he would have been absolutely crucified by both the local and national media.  And rightly so.  It would have made zero sense and a complete waste of resources.  No one had any idea at that point how things would work out both for Mariota and the other QBs.  In fact KC was roundly questioned for taking Mahomes so early.

Hardly and since this involves QB's, you probably should sit this one out.

 

We just saw a GM take a QB at #1 after picking one at #10 the year before.  We also saw KC take Mahomes with Alex Smith on a long term contract and having them in the playoffs.  Shanahan was smart enough to draft Cousins after RGIII. 

 

I expect the football professionals to look at things objectively.  When one closely examines Mariota's 2016 year, he was downright bad outside of the mid year hot streak and that was largely schemed.  In fact, he outright blew a couple of games (Minnesota comes to mind) that cost them a playoff spot.

 

The bottom line is that they hitched their wagon to Mariota, ignoring his limitations.  In the process, they did in fact draft an underused WR at #5 when they could have had their pick of Mahomes or Watson.  I'd add that given that time, they could have gotten a decent return on Mariota too. 

 

Hey - the Titans and Jaguars could have had Russell Wilson in rounds 2 or 3 instead of going all in on Locker and Gabbert. 

 

If this team had a better QB instead of trying for years to hitch their wagon to Mariota, they'd be a SB contender right now. 

 

The lack of objective unbiased talent evaluation is why and blame goes to AAS and Robinson.  Plenty of other teams are guilty of this too.  I'll add that Robinson's choices at QB have been Cassel, Gabbert, drafting Luke Falk, and then trading for Tannehill. 

[japan]

1 hour ago, BudAdams said:

 

IDK.  Empty seats/fan apathy, a mediocre team, no playoffs, a failed QB plan. 

 

Certainly not the plan JRob sold to AAS for sure when got control over the football operations. 

He didn’t draft the QB and there isn’t a plan for saving a failed QB. He gets no blowback from firing Mularkey as he was defiant to his superiors and the fans hated him. 

[scine09]

7 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

Hardly and since this involves QB's, you probably should sit this one out.

 

We just saw a GM take a QB at #1 after picking one at #10 the year before.  We also saw KC take Mahomes with Alex Smith on a long term contract and having them in the playoffs.  Shanahan was smart enough to draft Cousins after RGIII. 

 

I expect the football professionals to look at things objectively.  When one closely examines Mariota's 2016 year, he was downright bad outside of the mid year hot streak and that was largely schemed.  In fact, he outright blew a couple of games (Minnesota comes to mind) that cost them a playoff spot.

 

The bottom line is that they hitched their wagon to Mariota, ignoring his limitations.  In the process, they did in fact draft an underused WR at #5 when they could have had their pick of Mahomes or Watson.  I'd add that given that time, they could have gotten a decent return on Mariota too. 

 

Hey - the Titans and Jaguars could have had Russell Wilson in rounds 2 or 3 instead of going all in on Locker and Gabbert. 

 

If this team had a better QB instead of trying for years to hitch their wagon to Mariota, they'd be a SB contender right now. 

 

The lack of objective unbiased talent evaluation is why and blame goes to AAS and Robinson.  Plenty of other teams are guilty of this too.  I'll add that Robinson's choices at QB have been Cassel, Gabbert, drafting Luke Falk, and then trading for Tannehill. 

You're just way off.  There isn't one person in the history of football who would have taken a QB there.  Not one.

 

I'm not going to debate you about Mariota's 2016 because we've already been down that road. 

 

But you're flat out wrong on this one.

 

 

[scine09]

While we're at it, I made a mistake not playing the lottery last night.  Had I picked the 6 winning numbers I'd have won.  I should have known better!

[BudsOilers]

We just saw a GM pick a QB in the first round in consecutive years.  Seattle drafted Wilson after signing Matt Flynn to a huge deal.

 

I'm sure the critics would have panned it but they would have done so because it's not the norm.  I understand the thought process.  I just don't agree with it and think it's a bigger problem that the organization over drafted a limited player at #2 overall and hell or high water decided that no other viable option was on the table until 5 years later. 

 

It's not debatable that Mahomes and Watson are far superior QB's to Mariota.  It's also not debatable that the organization has been a trainwreck with regard to QB evaluations since McNair. 

 

 

 

[rns90]

52 minutes ago, scine09 said:

Yeah, Robinson was going to take a new QB with the #5 overall pick with Mariota coming off a 26 TD, 9 INT performance in his 2nd year in the league and many thinking he was on his way to being a superstar.  Okay.

 

Some of you people just make comments just to make them without really thinking.

 

If Robinson had drafted either of those QBs in 2017 he would have been absolutely crucified by both the local and national media.  And rightly so.  It would have made zero sense and a complete waste of resources.  No one had any idea at that point how things would work out both for Mariota and the other QBs.  In fact KC was roundly questioned for taking Mahomes so early.

I suspect that one of the selling points that JR made to AAS when he interviewed and got the GM job was that he would build the team around Mariota.  So, in this instance coming off the 2016 season, there was no chance that JR was going to take Mahomes.  This team just wasn't going to do that.  They are behind the times when it comes to that aspect of qb evaluations.

[scine09]

2 minutes ago, BudAdams said:

We just saw a GM pick a QB in the first round in consecutive years.  Seattle drafted Wilson after signing Matt Flynn to a huge deal.

 

I'm sure the critics would have panned it but they would have done so because it's not the norm.  I understand the thought process.  I just don't agree with it and think it's a bigger problem that the organization over drafted a limited player at #2 overall and hell or high water decided that no other viable option was on the table until 5 years later. 

 

It's not debatable that Mahomes and Watson are far superior QB's to Mariota.  It's also not debatable that the organization has been a trainwreck with regard to QB evaluations since McNair. 

 

 

 

You're looking at it as if they knew how all of these players would pan out.  They didn't.  Back in 2017 most people thought Mariota was on his way to being a very good if not top QB.  The Cardinals ditched Rosen who was flat out terrible last year.  Russell Wilson was a unique situation and he obviously wasn't a first round pick.

 

Your argument makes no sense at all.

 

Like I said, there's not one person who would have done what you're suggesting.