Marcus Mariota: A Thought, An Alternative and An Opinion

[japan]

23 hours ago, big2033 said:

Oh he exploded in New Orleans but its not a good example. Brees was putting up starter numbers. In fact he was being courted in free agency as a big name. He had Mariota’s best year three years in a row in a time where passing games werent as dominant. 

 

Brees then went from good to all-timer lol.

 

Mariota is not close to that production so you could by rights hope for mariota’s bad to reach UP to Brees’ San Diego average with proper coaching. We’re still in Alex Smith territory though.

Only two teams were interested in him in free agency. And his first choice turned him down on medical. Of course he would have been desired more without the shoulder injury. 

[titanruss]

23 hours ago, big2033 said:

The argument is not over as much as you'd LOVE it to be.

 

First, lol at "no one is bashing coaches ..." then you proceeded to bash the coaches. And I don't remember J-Rob saying "Mularkey is not putting players I drafted in position to succeed ..." please advise.

 

So if you can't answer the "loaded question" what makes Mariota any different than the failed QBs?

 

You feel it in your heart?

no i dont answer loaded question hypotheticals because its retarded. 

[big2033]

4 hours ago, titanruss said:

no i dont answer loaded question hypotheticals because its retarded. 

Then stop giving us hypotheticals regarding Mariota's failures. He's in his fifth year.

 

He's just failing. Accept that.

Edited August 22, 2019 by big2033

[titanruss]

25 minutes ago, big2033 said:

Then stop giving us hypotheticals regarding Mariota's failures. He's in his fifth year.

 

He's just failing. Accept that.

i have yet to ever give a hypothetical . 

 

i've merely stated facts. he's had a different offense/staff every season, has been injured, and was surrounded by a shit cast until recently... these are facts and are very very relevant to production and development. if you dont see that, then we have nothing to discuss. 

[big2033]

3 hours ago, titanruss said:

i have yet to ever give a hypothetical . 

 

i've merely stated facts. he's had a different offense/staff every season, has been injured, and was surrounded by a shit cast until recently... these are facts and are very very relevant to production and development. if you dont see that, then we have nothing to discuss. 

Different staff and players doesn't automatically dictate how good or bad he plays. These aren't facts. You can't prove definitively that affected his play to a degree that makes him a sub-par player. Just like you couldn't prove it with previous highly drafted QBs that flop.

 

The FACTS are his statistics and play on the field. Which are sub-par overall. What you have is speculation.

Edited August 22, 2019 by big2033

[oldschool]

On 8/20/2019 at 8:39 PM, Mythos27 said:

I've always felt Alex Smith was Mariota's outcome so I can't argue with that. 

I used to think Smith was Mariota's floor. Now I think Smith is the ceiling which sucks. 

[OILERMAN]

3 minutes ago, oldschool said:

I used to think Smith was Mariota's floor. Now I think Smith is the ceiling which sucks. 

We wish he was Alex Smith 

[Justafan]

19 minutes ago, oldschool said:

I used to think Smith was Mariota's floor. Now I think Smith is the ceiling which sucks. 

Yup, I'm looking for 20-24 TDs on the season and I'll call that enough of a success that I think the Titans will franchise tag him.  That's kinda depressing when I think about it.  Goff, who is a mediocre QB, threw for 32 last year.  

[bizzyeddie]

24 minutes ago, big2033 said:

Different staff and players doesn't automatically dictate how good or bad he plays. These aren't facts. You can't prove definitively that affected his play to a degree that makes him a sub-par player. Just like you couldn't prove it with previous highly drafted QBs that flop.

 

The FACTS are his statistics and play on the field. Which are sub-par overall. What you have is speculation.

I think it's factual that situations do affect how a player performs or develops...it also different for different players.

not something you can quantify but that doesn't mean it isn't factual.

 

I watch a lot of baseball and it's very obvious in that sport how certain players need stability to produce and when they get that stability and show some success all of a sudden the sky is the limit.

and some guys are gonna rake no matter what.

 

I would imagine that JRob and Vrabel discussed how to deal with Mariota.  Is he someone you support which it seems they have...or is he someone you challenge.

They have not wavered from the notion that Mariota is the guy.  That doesn't necessarilly mean that they feel his is the best option like some people like to point out.  Could just mean that is the best way to deal with Mariota to get the most out of him.  It's not always a good idea to have your QB thinking if he has a bad game he's getting the hook.

 

I still go back to the fact that (if I'm not mistaken) Mariota actually stood up for Mularkey.  We all see it from the outside and like to critique Mularkey separately often times from the whole picture.  Imagine being Mariota..you didn't have your best year but you accomplished some of the goals...you got to the playoffs and got a win.

That's something to build on and move forward and then all the higher ups go and fuck it all up and you end up with a new defensive minded meat head coach and a young OC that has never called plays and basically the opposite of Robiskie.

 

He gets injured...doesn't have a great year...still gets us to 9-7 and in it till the final week of the season and now we pick apart his "accuracy +" stats.

[big2033]

28 minutes ago, bizzyeddie said:

I think it's factual that situations do affect how a player performs or develops...it also different for different players.

not something you can quantify but that doesn't mean it isn't factual.

 

I watch a lot of baseball and it's very obvious in that sport how certain players need stability to produce and when they get that stability and show some success all of a sudden the sky is the limit.

and some guys are gonna rake no matter what.

 

I would imagine that JRob and Vrabel discussed how to deal with Mariota.  Is he someone you support which it seems they have...or is he someone you challenge.

They have not wavered from the notion that Mariota is the guy.  That doesn't necessarilly mean that they feel his is the best option like some people like to point out.  Could just mean that is the best way to deal with Mariota to get the most out of him.  It's not always a good idea to have your QB thinking if he has a bad game he's getting the hook.

 

I still go back to the fact that (if I'm not mistaken) Mariota actually stood up for Mularkey.  We all see it from the outside and like to critique Mularkey separately often times from the whole picture.  Imagine being Mariota..you didn't have your best year but you accomplished some of the goals...you got to the playoffs and got a win.

That's something to build on and move forward and then all the higher ups go and fuck it all up and you end up with a new defensive minded meat head coach and a young OC that has never called plays and basically the opposite of Robiskie.

 

He gets injured...doesn't have a great year...still gets us to 9-7 and in it till the final week of the season and now we pick apart his "accuracy +" stats.

So now it's Vrabel's fault?

 

You can't quantify it so leave it alone.

 

Go with the answer that's staring you in the face. The one mainstay in all of this.

 

A QB drafted No. 2 overall is drafted to be good-to-great. His surroundings help determine how good-to-great he is. It doesn't decide whether he's good or bad.

If he's bad or below average, odds are its on him.

Edited August 22, 2019 by big2033

[StephenIsLegend]

56 minutes ago, bizzyeddie said:

I think it's factual that situations do affect how a player performs or develops...it also different for different players.

not something you can quantify but that doesn't mean it isn't factual.

 

I watch a lot of baseball and it's very obvious in that sport how certain players need stability to produce and when they get that stability and show some success all of a sudden the sky is the limit.

and some guys are gonna rake no matter what.

 

I would imagine that JRob and Vrabel discussed how to deal with Mariota.  Is he someone you support which it seems they have...or is he someone you challenge.

They have not wavered from the notion that Mariota is the guy.  That doesn't necessarilly mean that they feel his is the best option like some people like to point out.  Could just mean that is the best way to deal with Mariota to get the most out of him.  It's not always a good idea to have your QB thinking if he has a bad game he's getting the hook.

 

I still go back to the fact that (if I'm not mistaken) Mariota actually stood up for Mularkey.  We all see it from the outside and like to critique Mularkey separately often times from the whole picture.  Imagine being Mariota..you didn't have your best year but you accomplished some of the goals...you got to the playoffs and got a win.

That's something to build on and move forward and then all the higher ups go and fuck it all up and you end up with a new defensive minded meat head coach and a young OC that has never called plays and basically the opposite of Robiskie.

 

He gets injured...doesn't have a great year...still gets us to 9-7 and in it till the final week of the season and now we pick apart his "accuracy +" stats.

You’ve gotta remember that big has a different view on QB development. He tends to think a QB has it or doesn’t. To me, it seems he doesn’t take other variables into consideration. 

[big2033]

35 minutes ago, StephenIsLegend said:

You’ve gotta remember that big has a different view on QB development. He tends to think a QB has it or doesn’t. To me, it seems he doesn’t take other variables into consideration. 

I do ... these variables decide "HOW MUCH" he has it and "HOW MUCH" he doesn't.

 

There's degrees to this. For instance, how great would Andrew Luck be if he had better coaching before Frank Reich? Luck is still good regardless ... but the question remains how good could he be.

 

Mariota hasn't shown much guys ... but you continue to tell me with coaching and players he could be good to great. I'd believe you if he at least put up numbers that show a sign of this ... he doesn't have it. So at this point I have to conclude we're basing it on hope.

 

We made a changes to unlock "greatness" he flopped. So at some point you have to accept his ceiling is low. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by big2033

[bizzyeddie]

3 hours ago, big2033 said:

So now it's Vrabel's fault?

 

You can't quantify it so leave it alone.

 

Go with the answer that's staring you in the face. The one mainstay in all of this.

 

A QB drafted No. 2 overall is drafted to be good-to-great. His surroundings help determine how good-to-great he is. It doesn't decide whether he's good or bad.

If he's bad or below average, odds are its on him.

it's not Vrabels fault...he didn't hire himself

and the Titans drafted Mariota #2...that is far more dictated by where particular teams are drafting and their needs.  It's not like Mariota dictated that.

 

and Mariota has led this team to 9-7..3 years straight with a playoff win.  It would seem to me he is at the least "good"...so yeah the organization has kept him from being great.

 

you choose the stats that make him look bad and you cast off the fact that he won a playoff game cause what does that matter.  It's laughable how results just don't seem to matter to so many...how did you get there and was it the way I wanted you to get there....did you do it the way I feel is the way to do it.

 

how can you possibly win without YAC?  

you are simple minded.

[EagleEye]

4 hours ago, OILERMAN said:

We wish he was Alex Smith 

And we wish you were Einstein.

 

2 hours ago, big2033 said:

We made a changes to unlock "greatness" he flopped.

What changes have been made to unlock "greatness"?  Hiring Moe, Larry, and Curly?  Every OC he's had no other team wants except  a green Lefleur.  And that was 1 yr with all the injuries.  Did anyone have the experience to teach him properly?  Or does that not matter to your kind?

[big2033]

16 minutes ago, bizzyeddie said:

it's not Vrabels fault...he didn't hire himself

and the Titans drafted Mariota #2...that is far more dictated by where particular teams are drafting and their needs.  It's not like Mariota dictated that.

 

and Mariota has led this team to 9-7..3 years straight with a playoff win.  It would seem to me he is at the least "good"...so yeah the organization has kept him from being great.

 

you choose the stats that make him look bad and you cast off the fact that he won a playoff game cause what does that matter.  It's laughable how results just don't seem to matter to so many...how did you get there and was it the way I wanted you to get there....did you do it the way I feel is the way to do it.

 

how can you possibly win without YAC?  

you are simple minded.

Thats where we differ ... Mariota has not been the best player on offense or defense the last three years so i dont know how he has led them go 9-7. I cant give him that full credit.

 

Kerry Collins had us at 13-3 but he was a below average QB.

 

The stats that make Mariota look bad have been the stats that make every QB look bad. The stats that make Mariota look good are mostly new and have too many variable to draw a proper conclusion.

Edited August 22, 2019 by big2033