Democratic Nomination for 2020 - UPDATED to include those who have officially announced

[ctm]

30 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

Single payer is mathematically impossible. How could it be even remotely paid for? 

 

The truth is that we probably wont see another transformative healthcare plan in our lifetimes or at least not for another couple decades. 

 

How do other countries do it and we can't?

[MadMax]

Just now, ctm said:

 

How do other countries do it and we can't?

 

That was gonna be my next smart ass question.

 

Brace yourself for Qremlin derived shit like, "Those countries are smaller blah blah blah".

[ctm]

1 minute ago, MadMax said:

 

That was gonna be my next smart ass question.

 

Brace yourself for Qremlin derived shit like, "Those countries are smaller blah blah blah".

 

You can always afford what's first on the priority list.

[tgo]

4 minutes ago, ctm said:

 

How do other countries do it and we can't?

 

It's funny how people compare the United States to small countries in Europe that are basically the size of a US State. 

 

The United States is more like an empire from sea to shining sea. It's more comparable to Russia or China than a country with a miniscule population like Finland. A better comparison would be a single US State implementing single payer vs an entire nation that is geographically and culturally divergent. 

 

The US is more like all of Europe combined (AKA the European Union), which highly different cultures and income ranges from one place to the next, rather than a single European country.  

 

Americans are far more unhealthy than Europeans and require a lot more care as well, and their tax rates are astronomical. 

 

But in short, how those smaller European countries do it is they tax the living shit out of the middle class. And that's not hyperbole, the middle class in those countries pay more than half their income in taxes. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by tgo

[MadMax]

Right on time.

[tgo]

1 minute ago, MadMax said:

Right on time.

 

Good luck telling the middle class in this country to pay more than half their income in taxes. 

 

I pity the politician that tries to stay in power with that approach. 

[ctm]

3 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

It's funny how people compare the United States to small countries in Europe that are basically the size of a US State. 

 

The United States is more like an empire from sea to shining sea. It's more comparable to Russia or China than a country with a miniscule population like Finland. A better comparison would be a single US State implementing single payer vs an entire nation that is geographically and culturally divergent. 

 

The US is more like all of Europe combined (AKA the European Union), which highly different cultures and income ranges from one place to the next, rather than a single European country.  

 

Americans are far more unhealthy than Europeans and require a lot more care as well, and their tax rates are astronomical. 

 

But in short, how those smaller European countries do it is they tax the living shit out of the middle class. And that's not hyperbole, the middle class in those countries pay more than half their income in taxes. 

 

So, it can be done and all the evidence from other countries is that it's cheaper per capita.   Now, it's just a question of who pays and how much?

Edited January 30, 2020 by ctm

[tgo]

1 minute ago, ctm said:

 

So, it can be done and all the evidence from other countries is that it's cheaper per capita.   Now, it's just a question of who pays and how much?

 

And there's only one answer. 

 

The rich pay 70% and the middle class pay 50%. 

 

My opinion - fuck that. 

 

Also, if people love Europe so much, why not move there?

 

Since Europe is so great, why isn't the Euro the world's currency? 

 

Why is the US GDP higher than the EU despite how great those countries are and how amazing their healthcare is?

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by tgo

[oldschool]

41 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

Single payer is mathematically impossible. How could it be even remotely paid for? 

 

The truth is that we probably wont see another transformative healthcare plan in our lifetimes or at least not for another couple decades. 

 

Its absolutely possible if it becomes a priority. The larger issue is public confidence in the government running all of healthcare. 

[MadMax]

3 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

And there's only one answer. 

 

The rich pay 70% and the middle class pay 50%. 

 

My opinion - fuck that. 

Well hell's bells, combine what I'm taxed already with my premium and out of pocket expenses, 50% might not be such a bad deal.

[tgo]

1 minute ago, oldschool said:

 

Its absolutely possible if it becomes a priority. The larger issue is public confidence in the government running all of healthcare. 

 

Haha ok @oldschool - well if you want to pay 50% of your income in taxes, be my guest. 

[tgo]

4 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Well hell's bells, combine what I'm taxed already with my premium and out of pocket expenses, 50% might not be such a bad deal.

 

Yeah it's a terrible fucking deal. I can tell you, as a middle class person I pay less than 1% of my income on healthcare. And have a 24% tax rate and it's hard enough to get by with a family, and I'm supposed to pay another 25% of my income in taxes?

 

Yeah, no fucking thank you.

 

I'm already paying the equivalent of taxes of one poverty level person's earnings, and I'm supposed to now pay yet another 25% for a government healthcare takeover?

 

Want everyone to have to sell their houses and move into apartments like in Finland or?

Edited January 30, 2020 by tgo

[ctm]

My issue with M4A is that it's not politically possible in the next few years. The senate isn't going to pass it, period.

 

It's therefore an academic debate and an electoral hill that I'm not willing to die on with Trump in the white house.  The only way to get to universal coverage, imo, is with an incremental approach.  Start with improving the ACA, then go to a public option.....

 

I also have no doubt that if it were adopted that it would be cheaper per capita than the status quo.

[MadMax]

1 minute ago, tgo said:

 

Yeah it's a terrible fucking deal. I can tell you, as a middle class person I pay less than 1% of my income on healthcare. And have a 24% tax rate and it's hard enough to get by with a family, and I'm supposed to pay another 25% of my income in taxes?

 

Yeah, no fucking thank you.

 

Want everyone to have to sell their houses and move into apartments like in Finland or?

 

Well since you're paying less than 1% and are making out like a bandit, you don't give a shit how badly the majority of us are being reamed.  Got it.

[ctm]

2 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

Yeah it's a terrible fucking deal. I can tell you, as a middle class person I pay less than 1% of my income on healthcare. And have a 24% tax rate and it's hard enough to get by with a family, and I'm supposed to pay another 25% of my income in taxes?

 

Yeah, no fucking thank you.

 

Want everyone to have to sell their houses and move into apartments like in Finland or?

 

You keep repeating 50% tax rate.  Show that as factual.