Trump’s 2nd term: American Carnage

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Alzarius said:

 

Points that don't have anything to do with Trump.

 

Read your comments again and pretend Trump doesnt exist when you read if. If you still want me to elaborate, I will. I'm a conservative Christian, if that helps you think outside of Trump.

 

 

I don't know enough to argue this. I just know how everyone will look if they are wrong.

 

 

 

Imagine that. People don't take you seriously and argue in good faith if you treat them like shit.

 

Who knew? 

 

This is also a 2 way street and neither side had the advantage. 

 

Trumpers got dragged through the mud the last 8 years, and will for 4 more. Much of which, rightfully so but you don't get to be shitty to people and then complain when they don't act like you want them to after all that.

 

 

 

Sure does 

 

All the way around

 

 

The tone was some of the stuff you said.  I'll discusss more of you really want to.

 

I'm saying your party, and many if the members here, has been sitting on a throne  for 4 years, treating people like shit, calling all of them racist, nazis, idiots, and everything else and looking down on them.

 

You just get to label them.

 

I don't agree with something, I'm "insert you -obia"

 

And, since your on your own thrones, you guys to hide behind "being a good person" and feel justified being shitty to people.

 

So yea. I have issues with your post.

 

 

But I could be wrong. Maybe "you first", "no you first" is now accepted forms of discussion lol

 

This is an interesting take and speaks a lot to what has happened. Yes, the aggrieved nature of conservative Christians--as you've noted have felt like victims. 

 

Firstly, this is probably the most critical I've been and you know for the most part how I've been in dialogue with you around your religious view in particular. So the idea that this has been an issue of the past four years, it is not coming from me. 

 

Conservative grievance has been stoked primarily from conservatives. And maybe this is it--do you feel so talked down to that you want to sacrifice democracy? If so, that is on you. 

 

There is no one who can say the checks and balances of government are being eroded right now. Whole institutions being eliminated, normal every day Americans losing jobs, farmers losing groups, students losing opportunity and funding, our intelligence at risk, our allies spurned. Elon Musk gets the keys to the kingdom and gets to be judge, jury, and executioner despite obvious conflicts of interest. Investigations into election fraud, foreign bribery--all gone. 

 

Career civil servants? Fuck em. Next thing up is Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. All these things we've invested in as citizens, the norms of our government. 

 

Your justification for this is that the "fuck your feelings crowd" have their feelings hurt? 

 

And make no mistake, some of this is projection. 

 

Conservatives in this country feel completely aggrieved because they've had to acknowledge other people exist. There has never been a politician in this country who has been more about grievance and feelings and emotion than Trump--this is public record in his social media, where he non stop bitches about how "unfairly" he was treated. 

 

And yes, there are some people who have been unfairly labeled--I also think those labels have been focused on, dwelled on, and blown up by conservative media who is much more affected. Some of this "unfair" treatment is actually just being forced to treat other people fairly. 

 

And as you retaliate and strip away the rights of others, there will be trans kids that die, mothers that die in childbirth or lose their ability to carry a child, families that will lose a farm or a small business, teachers (already struggling) who will suffer, children around the world who will go hungry etc. Maybe I am wrong about some of these things and the conservatives will come out of the woodwork to propose systems that benefit people and society (that's not in the plan so far). I don't really see an avenue where Trump reverses course and moves towards more democratic governing. 

 

Again, I really don't know what to say.

 

I hope this good feeling is worth it for you. May you sit in your righteous Christianity feeling vindicated over those that "wronged" you and confident in your judgment of sin and your personal journey with Christ. There is no part of me that will legitimize this view point as being co-aligned with the constitution and the American idea. 

 

 

[rns90]

2 hours ago, headhunter said:

If anything this strengthens out republic 

Are you insane?

 

There’s a reason the Judicial branch serves as a check and balance on the executive branch.

 

This isn’t even political or anything . It’s a basic understanding of American history.

[headhunter]

7 minutes ago, rns90 said:

Are you insane?

 

There’s a reason the Judicial branch serves as a check and balance on the executive branch.

 

This isn’t even political or anything . It’s a basic understanding of American history.

So are you for big government wasteful spending, open borders, ridiculous woke policies, wars, radicalizing the DOJ, going after your political opponent? Now which one sounds like it was a threat to our Republic 

[headhunter]

Cleaning up the trash that was the left isnt being a Nazi. 

[ChesterCopperpot1]

24 minutes ago, KenAmato58 said:

I'll just leave this right here. 

 

1) Biden defies supreme court on Student loan relief: College debt relief: Biden dangerously defies the Supreme Court  https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/14/opinion/biden-student-loan-relief/

2) Biden defies supreme court on eviction moratorium:  Biden Tries to Revive His Eviction Moratorium Through the Back Door | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/biden-tries-to-revive-his-eviction-moratorium-through-the-back-door/

 

These are only two examples, but they were egregious enough for me to remember them off the top of my head. It sounds like you only have a problem when Republicans, "defy," judicial orders. Two times the supreme court slapped his hand and two times he went back and directly defied their orders harming millions of americans in the process. Especially the Eviction moratorium part 2. Just shameful... 

You keep bringing up student loan stuff, and Biden did not defy the Court's Order. I am pretty well-versed in the student loan stuff (as I have quite a bit of loans from law school), and not one red cent was forgiven under his plan. What they did, however, was discharge loans under existing laws on the books, such as IDR and PSLF. I know someone who had an application pending to have her loans forgiven under PSLF while Trump was in office and it didn't move at all. When Biden got in office, the application was processed and then approved. PSLF was written into law by congress and was signed by the president at the time (don't remember the year it was codified). The same happened with IDR/IBR (basically the same thing just have different names). Borrowers made the requisite number of qualifying payments required under the law but discharge applications were not being processed under Trump. When Biden got in office, those pending applications were processed. All of this was written into law by Congress. The same applies to borrower defense, which was written into law. The DOE was sued in multiple class actions because the applications sat dormant for years under the first trump administration. The DOE refused to process the applications or would instead issue blanket denials without examining the merits of the application. Under Biden, I know people who had the applications processed and approved, and I know people who had the applications processed and denied. But again this was written into law to allow a mechanism for relief against schools that were deemed bad actors. 

[Jamalisms]

There's nothing the majority likes more than mistaking removal of privilege for oppression. But, if there was, it would be mistaking accountability and calling a spade a spade for, well, that's also mistaken for oppression.

[Titandan]

22 minutes ago, Bink said:

 

This is an interesting take and speaks a lot to what has happened. Yes, the aggrieved nature of conservative Christians--as you've noted have felt like victims. 

 

Firstly, this is probably the most critical I've been and you know for the most part how I've been in dialogue with you around your religious view in particular. So the idea that this has been an issue of the past four years, it is not coming from me. 

 

Conservative grievance has been stoked primarily from conservatives. And maybe this is it--do you feel so talked down to that you want to sacrifice democracy? If so, that is on you. 

 

There is no one who can say the checks and balances of government are being eroded right now. Whole institutions being eliminated, normal every day Americans losing jobs, farmers losing groups, students losing opportunity and funding, our intelligence at risk, our allies spurned. Elon Musk gets the keys to the kingdom and gets to be judge, jury, and executioner despite obvious conflicts of interest. Investigations into election fraud, foreign bribery--all gone. 

 

Career civil servants? Fuck em. Next thing up is Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. All these things we've invested in as citizens, the norms of our government. 

 

Your justification for this is that the "fuck your feelings crowd" have their feelings hurt? 

 

And make no mistake, some of this is projection. 

 

Conservatives in this country feel completely aggrieved because they've had to acknowledge other people exist. There has never been a politician in this country who has been more about grievance and feelings and emotion than Trump--this is public record in his social media, where he non stop bitches about how "unfairly" he was treated. 

 

And yes, there are some people who have been unfairly labeled--I also think those labels have been focused on, dwelled on, and blown up by conservative media who is much more affected. Some of this "unfair" treatment is actually just being forced to treat other people fairly. 

 

And as you retaliate and strip away the rights of others, there will be trans kids that die, mothers that die in childbirth or lose their ability to carry a child, families that will lose a farm or a small business, teachers (already struggling) who will suffer, children around the world who will go hungry etc. Maybe I am wrong about some of these things and the conservatives will come out of the woodwork to propose systems that benefit people and society (that's not in the plan so far). I don't really see an avenue where Trump reverses course and moves towards more democratic governing. 

 

Again, I really don't know what to say.

 

I hope this good feeling is worth it for you. May you sit in your righteous Christianity feeling vindicated over those that "wronged" you and confident in your judgment of sin and your personal journey with Christ. There is no part of me that will legitimize this view point as being co-aligned with the constitution and the American idea. 

 

 

Love you brutha.  Sorry I treated you like shit before. You're probably a good dude in real life.

[Jamalisms]

6 minutes ago, ChesterCopperpot1 said:

You keep bringing up student loan stuff, and Biden did not defy the Court's Order. I am pretty well-versed in the student loan stuff (as I have quite a bit of loans from law school), and not one red cent was forgiven under his plan. What they did, however, was discharge loans under existing laws on the books, such as IDR and PSLF. I know someone who had an application pending to have her loans forgiven under PSLF while Trump was in office and it didn't move at all. When Biden got in office, the application was processed and then approved. PSLF was written into law by congress and was signed by the president at the time (don't remember the year it was codified). The same happened with IDR/IBR (basically the same thing just have different names). Borrowers made the requisite number of qualifying payments required under the law but discharge applications were not being processed under Trump. When Biden got in office, those pending applications were processed. All of this was written into law by Congress. The same applies to borrower defense, which was written into law. The DOE was sued in multiple class actions because the applications sat dormant for years under the first trump administration. The DOE refused to process the applications or would instead issue blanket denials without examining the merits of the application. Under Biden, I know people who had the applications processed and approved, and I know people who had the applications processed and denied. But again this was written into law to allow a mechanism for relief against schools that were deemed bad actors. 

 

That's definitely not a person or, given the clearly false nature of the claim made, a topic worth discussing. You don't get from an opinion like that back to reality without the person wanting to. And nothing he posts indicates he does want to.

[Jamalisms]

This is actually hilarious, except it's disrespectful to the body that has to consider it: 

 

A bill has been introduced in Congress to authorize the purchase of Greenland and to rename it "Red, White and Blueland."

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1161

 

[ChesterCopperpot1]

12 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

 

That's definitely not a person or, given the clearly false nature of the claim made, a topic worth discussing. You don't get from an opinion like that back to reality without the person wanting to. And nothing he posts indicates he does want to.

Had Biden said fuck it and forgiven $20k in student debt from everyone in the country after SCOTUS struck down that plan, then he would have a legitimate point. But republicans see "Biden forgives loans" as a headline and latch onto it like a bitch in heat ignoring that laws written by congress re: student loans are not as simple as they like to think they are. 

[ChesterCopperpot1]

8 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

This is actually hilarious, except it's disrespectful to the body that has to consider it: 

 

A bill has been introduced in Congress to authorize the purchase of Greenland and to rename it "Red, White and Blueland."

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1161

 

Of course, a dude named Buddy sponsors it. 

[Jamalisms]

Just now, Jamalisms said:

And another smoking gun: 

 

"Staffers at the nation’s cybersecurity agency whose job is to ensure the security of U.S. elections have been placed on administrative leave, jeopardizing critical support provided to state and local election offices across the country.

 

In recent days, 17 employees of the U.S. Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency who have worked with election officials to provide assessments and trainings dealing with a range of threats — from cyber and ransomware attacks to physical security of election workers — have been placed on leave pending a review, according to a person familiar with the situation who was not authorized to speak publicly."

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-cyber-agency-puts-election-security-staffers-worked-118671767

 

 

 

 

[Titandan]

4 minutes ago, ChesterCopperpot1 said:

You keep bringing up student loan stuff, and Biden did not defy the Court's Order. I am pretty well-versed in the student loan stuff (as I have quite a bit of loans from law school), and not one red cent was forgiven under his plan. What they did, however, was discharge loans under existing laws on the books, such as IDR and PSLF. I know someone who had an application pending to have her loans forgiven under PSLF while Trump was in office and it didn't move at all. When Biden got in office, the application was processed and then approved. PSLF was written into law by congress and was signed by the president at the time (don't remember the year it was codified). The same happened with IDR/IBR (basically the same thing just have different names). Borrowers made the requisite number of qualifying payments required under the law but discharge applications were not being processed under Trump. When Biden got in office, those pending applications were processed. All of this was written into law by Congress. The same applies to borrower defense, which was written into law. The DOE was sued in multiple class actions because the applications sat dormant for years under the first trump administration. The DOE refused to process the applications or would instead issue blanket denials without examining the merits of the application. Under Biden, I know people who had the applications processed and approved, and I know people who had the applications processed and denied. But again this was written into law to allow a mechanism for relief against schools that were deemed bad actors. 

Imagine hypothetically you were heavily invested in a company and for whatever reason this stock continues to make you pay it multiple times a year instead of paying you dividends. Instead of reporting earnings, this stock posts annual deficits and the deficit gets bigger every year. 

 

So some other share holders finally get fed up and ask for a change of CEO. The CEO's change a few times every couple years but it's the same result until finally you get a CEO who's radical and rough around the edges.  He promises to get rid of waste and fraud that's hemorrhaging the company. 

 

Within the company, the auditing team find billions of dollars of waste just from one department.  The CEO also starts negotiating with competitors and collaborative companies that have not been playing it fair when it came to their previous deals.  

 

The CEO gives the auditing team of professionals full access to various departments but all of a sudden some judges with ties to the previous leaderships tries to halt the investigations. 

 

As a shareholder who pays 30-40% of your annual earnings to this company, wouldn't you be at least a little curious to see who's been cheating you and where your money's been going? Shouldn't the natural response be to cheer on these people who are finally trying to expose the corruption instead of the people who are trying to block the investigation? 

 

I know I'm biased, but even if Joe Biden were to do it 4 years ago, I'd be at least a little bit curious where all the fraud and corruption was happening in the government. If anything, I'd be disappointed in my party for missing their chance to uncover this mess.  

 

Simply put.  The people voted for Trump to drain the swamp.  Many of you were critical of Trump for not doing just that.  And a lot of you were accusing republicans of corruption and fraud.  Except corruption was on both sides of the fence. Now is our chance. Either your for exposing corruption or you're not.  Take the red pill and open your eyes to reality. 

[Jamalisms]

The dumbest mother fuckers.

[Titans279]

1 hour ago, KenAmato58 said:

I'll just leave this right here. 

 

1) Biden defies supreme court on Student loan relief: College debt relief: Biden dangerously defies the Supreme Court  https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/14/opinion/biden-student-loan-relief/

2) Biden defies supreme court on eviction moratorium:  Biden Tries to Revive His Eviction Moratorium Through the Back Door | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/biden-tries-to-revive-his-eviction-moratorium-through-the-back-door/

 

These are only two examples, but they were egregious enough for me to remember them off the top of my head. It sounds like you only have a problem when Republicans, "defy," judicial orders. Two times the supreme court slapped his hand and two times he went back and directly defied their orders harming millions of americans in the process. Especially the Eviction moratorium part 2. Just shameful... 

 

A good distraction technique but Trump's actions can be evaluated in a vacuum. What do you think of the massive expansion of executive power they are attempting, and the direct attacks on the other branches?