Hamas Brutally Massacres Scores of Civilians: Israel Turns Genocidal

[El Guapo]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:43 PM, Starkiller said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iran-tells-hamas-not-enter-190351808.html
 

Iran’s supreme leader told the head of Hamas in a face-to-face meeting in Tehran that his country would not enter the war with Israel and accused the terror group of not giving any prior warning of the Oct 7 attacks.

 

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei told Ismail Haniyeh that Iran – a longtime backer of Hamas – would continue to lend the group its political and moral support, but would not intervene directly, according to three Iranian and Hamas officials with knowledge of the discussions who asked to remain anonymous.

 

The supreme leader pressed Haniyeh to silence those voices in the Palestinian group publicly calling for Iran and its powerful Lebanese ally Hezbollah to join the battle against Israel in full force, a Hamas official told Reuters.

 

Hezbollah, too, was taken by surprise by Hamas’s devastating assault last month that killed 1,200 Israelis. Its fighters were not even on alert in villages near the border that were frontlines in its 2006 war with Israel, and had to be rapidly called up, three sources close to the Lebanese group said.

Not believable. Suspect Israel had a come to Allah conversation with them. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

2 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Not believable. Suspect Israel had a come to Allah conversation with them. 

That would be the US sending strike teams and nuclear subs into the area.

[El Guapo]

That too

[Starkiller]

16 hours ago, VaTitan said:

I haven’t read through this whole thread so I’m not sure how serious you are here. 
 

But if you are serious, I just don’t understand how people can criticize Israel’s response when Hamas is hiding under hospitals, etc….

So the issue is clearly that Israel is at war with Hamas and they hide among civilians in Gaza. And Israel is trying to end Hamas because they are a threat to civilians. Seems perfectly understandable in that respect. 
 

The problem is, how many civilians is the IDF going to kill in order to protect civilians?

[reo]

1 hour ago, Starkiller said:

So the issue is clearly that Israel is at war with Hamas and they hide among civilians in Gaza. And Israel is trying to end Hamas because they are a threat to civilians. Seems perfectly understandable in that respect. 
 

The problem is, how many civilians is the IDF going to kill in order to protect civilians?

 

That's also why I know enough about the situation to talk about Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths. How many were civilians on either side? How many were Hamas? How many Palestinian civilians were killed bc Hamas attacked Isreal civilians then hid behind their own? I don't know know so I don't talk about this issue much. 

[Justafan]

1 minute ago, reo said:

 

That's also why I know enough about the situation to talk about Palestinian deaths to Israeli deaths. How many were civilians on either side? How many were Hamas? How many Palestinian civilians were killed bc Hamas attacked Isreal civilians then hid behind their own? I don't know know so I don't talk about this issue much. 

It's impossible to answer some of those questions.  However, we shouldn't get caught in the false equivalency trap here. How many Jews live in Syria, Iran, and Lebanon? Easy answer, not fucking many.

 

Israel could wipe the Palestenians out tomorrow, and no one could really stop them. They haven't, and they won't. 

 

What would happen if the power roles were reversed? Again, easy answer. The Palestenians would kill ALL of the Jews. We know this because their leaders have shouted it publicly many times and for years.

 

Now, Israel deserves criticism for killing innocents. Children don't deserve to die, and I have a ton of sympathy for the innocent Palestenians who have nowhere to turn and are getting bombed and can't get access to food, water, or medical care. That's crap.

 

Having said ALL of that. The Israelis, while not innocent, are not terrorists, and we should never forget that. They didn't chop kids' heads off and have been far more willing to compromise and find peaceful solutions than anyone on the other side.

 

Sorry, I know I quoted you, but this really isn't directed at you so much as the entire tone that is being expressed. 

[VaTitan]

2 hours ago, Justafan said:

The Palestenians would kill ALL of the Jews.

 

I assume you mean Hamas vs Palestinians above.  If so, I pretty much agree with everything said here.

 

Hamas are terrorist and Isreal deserve the right to eliminate them.  It’s horrible what’s happening to Palestinians, but that’s on Hamas….not Isreal

[VaTitan]

I’ll also add Netanyahu deserves a ton on blame here….and should be bounced out as soon as possible

[Justafan]

16 minutes ago, VaTitan said:

I assume you mean Hamas vs Palestinians above.  If so, I pretty much agree with everything said here.

 

Hamas are terrorist and Isreal deserve the right to eliminate them.  It’s horrible what’s happening to Palestinians, but that’s on Hamas….not Isreal

I think it's fair to put a separation on the two groups as long as you note that while not all Palestinians are Hamas, all Hamas are Palestinians. 

 

Some Palestinians would still like to find a peaceful solution and even be open to something like a two-state solution.  Their leaders - elected in 2006 - used fear, retaliation, and violence to maintain power, so we really don't know what percentage of the population actually supports Hamas. 

 

If Hamas is removed and new leaders emerge who engage in a new discussion, I'm all for it. I think it's unrealistic and unreasonable to expect Israel will have that conversation until they feel confident Hamas is destroyed as a political organization. 

 

 

[Pragidealist]

Someone used the analogy, what if terrorists controlled New York, hid in the tunnels/subways, behind and within their hospitals & churches, and knew that any civilian deaths on either side helped their cause (in their eyes)..  Then they bombed DC from NY.   

 

What would we do?  The answer. I have no fucking clue. It's a horrible situation with no good solutions.  The answer is to never let those things happen. But it has- and there are no good answers. 

 

 

 

[IsntLifeFunny]

12 hours ago, El Guapo said:

That too

Nah, not really. The US is running this show. Israel is excellent at small skirmishes and Defense, but they're of no regional threat besides some bombing runs. 

 

Another job by the Biden Administration handled well. 

[El Guapo]

Really? Israel is one tough nut. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

14 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Really? Israel is one tough nut. 

Of course they are, but not in terms of projecting power. They could wreck some advanced weaponry and such things, but their ability to project power across that region is limited for many different reasons including any type of move to sustain a protracted attack would leave them highly vulnerable to counterattack. They let their nuclear weapons program be a backstop and are willing to do more subterfuge and stealth attacks than anything they could threaten another country with. 

 

You also have to remember they have an opaque stance on their nukes and have still never openly verified them, so they can't even threaten outright with those either.

[Starkiller]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/israeli-airstrikes-kill-80-in-palestinian-refugee-camp
 

Airstrikes on crowded UN shelters in north Gaza’s Jabalia refugee camp killed more than 80 people on Saturday, as Israeli plans to expand operations into south Gaza deepened fears for hundreds of thousands of civilians who have sought refuge there.

 

Underlining the reminder that there is nowhere safe for Gaza’s civilians, an airstrike outside the southern town of Khan Younis killed at least 26 people in the early hours of Saturday morning.

 

At least 50 people were killed in a dawn attack on a UN-run school in the Jabalia camp, and a strike on another building there killed 32 members of a single family – 19 of them children – officials from the Hamas-run health ministry told AFP.

 

The Israeli military, which had warned Jabalia residents to leave in a social media post in Arabic, declined to comment immediately when asked about the strikes.

 

For weeks, Israel has urged civilians in and around Gaza City to head south to protect themselves, and large numbers complied. Last week, for the first time the Israeli military urged people to leave areas in the south, around Khan Younis town, where residents include many recently displaced from the north.

[Starkiller]

From the same story, but a slightly different topic:

 

When Israeli planes hit northern Gaza at the start of the war, and troops prepared to move in, Israeli messages urged civilians to move south of the Wadi Gaza wetlands for their own safety.

 

Despite risks on the journey, and severe overcrowding in shelters and private homes, hundreds of thousands followed those orders. About 1.6 million people are displaced, more than two-thirds of the population, the UN said.

 

They found only relative safety. Forty days into the war, 3,676 people had been killed in southern areas that Israel had declared safer. They accounted for a third of all Palestinian deaths in the conflict, according to a UN map using figures from Gaza’s health authorities. Now many of those people have been told to move again, and cram into an even smaller area along the coast, around the town of Mawasi.

 

“They asked us, the citizens of Gaza, to go to the south. We went to the south. Now they are asking us to leave. Where do we go?” Atya Abu Jab told Reuters, outside the tent where his family who fled Gaza City live, one of a long row of makeshift homes.