Hamas Brutally Massacres Scores of Civilians: Israel Turns Genocidal

[Jamalisms]

I just don't know how you kill leaders and enemy combatants while not killing civilians when the fighters hide among the populace. I don't think saying "screw it" and dropping bombs anyway is the right answer but neither is uncertainty turning into inaction.

 

In terms of pubic relations, I think Israel has been too willing to be aligned, or appear to be aligned, with a "screw it" approach. They're losing the messaging war because of it and that's not inconsequential.

[tgo]

2 minutes ago, Jamalisms said:

I just don't know how you kill leaders and enemy combatants while not killing civilians when the fighters hide among the populace. I don't think saying "screw it" and dropping bombs anyway is the right answer but neither is uncertainty turning into inaction.

 

In terms of pubic relations, I think Israel has been too willing to be aligned, or appear to be aligned, with a "screw it" approach. They're losing the messaging war because of it and that's not inconsequential.

 

I do think they're at risk of losing the messaging war for certain, but as to whether they have actually lost it across the board remains up in the air - it depends on what circles you run in and what information a given person is consuming.

 

There are tons and tons of (dumb) Americans that would be fine with Israel nuking the whole of Gaza with no regard for the civilians there whatsoever. Which is obviously morally reprehensible.

 

But the Biden administration has really perilous political realities to deal with as it comes to their own supporters as well, including Muslim Americans who largely have voted Democrat in recent elections. They have a very fine line to tow both morally and politically on this issue.

[IsntLifeFunny]

Israel admits to bombing refugee camp...this is where shit gets really tricky. This is a Col. discussing the reasoning and while I am understandably somewhat conflicted I cannot justify bombing a refugee camp to take out one man. If he's that high of a priority then that's what special ops is for. 

[Jamalisms]

It's probably a few pages back by now but I posted an analysis of what sorts of posts are gaining the most interaction right now and the results were pretty one-sided. Based on that, at least, the sentiment is already very much against Israel and I think it would take a lot for that to change because the evil done by Hamas is already over. From this point onward, all of the violence will arise from and look bad for Israel.

 

I think overall sentiment only gets worse for Israel, which is pretty wild and a major messaging failure.

[tgo]

1 minute ago, Jamalisms said:

It's probably a few pages back by now but I posted some an analysis of what sorts of posts are gaining the most interaction right now and the results were pretty one-sided. Based on that, at least, the sentiment is already very much against Israel and I think it would take a lot for that to change because the evil done by Hamas is already over. From this point onward, all of the violence will arise from and look bad for Israel.

 

Pretty much. And along with that will come more anti-Israel and/or anti-Semitic sentiment and actions around the world, which is a real problem.

[oldschool]

@IsntLifeFunny @tgo The red line has been crossed. Its amazing to me but not surprising that Israel would squander the support they have globally by bombing a refugee camp not once but twice. 

 

 

 

 

[tgo]

7 minutes ago, oldschool said:

@IsntLifeFunny @tgo The red line has been crossed. Its amazing to me but not surprising that Israel would squander the support they have globally by bombing a refugee camp not once but twice. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I've been following this - apparently there were tunnels and underground fortresses in the area (which is actually undeniably true), so that was the target of the strikes. But instead of coming up with other, admittedly more risky methods to do deal with that, they just bombed the area anyway despite the presence of tons of civilians.

 

I think they're making a dark and deadly calculation - that the life of an Israeli soldier is more valuable than the life of an innocent Palestinian. I don't know what the right answer is, but I have to think there is a way to avoid that level of collateral damage.

Edited November 2, 2023 by tgo

[IsntLifeFunny]

Just now, tgo said:

 

Yeah, I've been following this - apparently there were tunnels and underground fortresses in the area (which is actually undeniably true), so that was the target of the strikes. But instead of coming up with other, admittedly more risky methods to do deal with that, they just bombed the area anyway despite the presence of tons of civilians.

 

They're making a deadly calculation - that the life of an Israeli soldier is more valuable than the life of an innocent Palestinian. I don't know what the right answer is, but I have to think there is a way to avoid that level of collateral damage.

If it were a 1 to 1 comparison I could justify it even if not wanting to do so. This is not 1 to 1 or even close. This is the bombing of a refugee camp to take out one man and some infrastructure. That's terrible. Israel needs to stop this shit. 

[Alzarius]

4 minutes ago, tgo said:

 

They're making a deadly calculation - that the life of an Israeli soldier is more valuable than the life of an innocent Palestinian. I don't know what the right answer is, but I have to think there is a way to avoid that level of collateral damage.

 

There is no right answer other than avoiding war and conflict

 

Once it starts, this stuff happens

Edited November 2, 2023 by Alzarius

[IsntLifeFunny]

12 minutes ago, oldschool said:

@IsntLifeFunny @tgo The red line has been crossed. Its amazing to me but not surprising that Israel would squander the support they have globally by bombing a refugee camp not once but twice. 

 

 

 

 

He's absolutely correct. 

[oldschool]

1 hour ago, tgo said:

 

Yeah, I've been following this - apparently there were tunnels and underground fortresses in the area (which is actually undeniably true), so that was the target of the strikes. But instead of coming up with other, admittedly more risky methods to do deal with that, they just bombed the area anyway despite the presence of tons of civilians.

 

I think they're making a dark and deadly calculation - that the life of an Israeli soldier is more valuable than the life of an innocent Palestinian. I don't know what the right answer is, but I have to think there is a way to avoid that level of collateral damage.

 

You can't bomb a refugee camp to get to valid war targets period; Its a war crime. This isn't WW2, things are different now. Like Crowe said you can conduct war in urban settings and still work to minimize civilian casualties. What Israel did here isn't the way.

[TF_Titan]

2 hours ago, Jamalisms said:

The post could have said "Jamal is the coolest" and I'd have still asked.

 

Well yeah...that would be obvious misinformation.

[Titans279]

Is there a way to actually get Israel to not do this that the Biden admin would actually do though?

[IsntLifeFunny]

6 minutes ago, Titans279 said:

Is there a way to actually get Israel to not do this that the Biden admin would actually do though?

Doubtful. It would have been a lot easier if this was after the election. I hate to say that and I don't mean to sound as if that is the way it should be, but it's the way it is. If Biden was into his second term it would have been way more feasible politically to put the foot down even at the risk of splintering the party. 

 

What they can do is to slow down the transport of arms and make a red line about future weapons transfers, but even that is doubtful they would do such a maneuver. 

 

It's a valid question. 

[Strunk'sDessert]

1 hour ago, Alzarius said:

 

There is no right answer other than avoiding war and conflict

 

Once it starts, this stuff happens

Realistically, I have to unfortunately agree with this notion.

 

But there has to be a consistent push for humanity to do better. However, bad actors always seem to find new means to barbaric ends. This has been repeated through thousands of years. 

 

Tough answer, to your point, in these regards, but it's perfectly OK to be very disappointed with Israel in this regard while also being disgusted with Hamas.