IsntLifeFunny Posted November 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Justafan said: It wasn't my point either. I know, so I'm not sure why when I said that to chef you didn't see I was also saying that to you. I was interjecting not to take a potshot at Republicans but merely to state what I see as a fact. I used to be an independent. I am now a full blown card carrying Democrat because of the transformation of the Republican Party over the past 6 years. As for ideology being an existential threat that's for the discussion you were having with Chef and about stupid people in general. At this present time the vast majority of stupid people who are politically aware are Trump supporters. Starkiller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, reo said: Did I say that? Unless you're saying you didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: I know, so I'm not sure why when I said that to chef you didn't see I was also saying that to you. I was interjecting not to take a potshot at Republicans but merely to state what I see as a fact. I used to be an independent. I am now a full blown card carrying Democrat because of the transformation of the Republican Party over the past 6 years. As for ideology being an existential threat that's for the discussion you were having with Chef and about stupid people in general. At this present time the vast majority of stupid people who are politically aware are Trump supporters. I don't care if you take potshots at Republicans. They deserve all the criticism they get and I'll be right there with you for most of it. I won't turn a blind eye to the hypocrisy or incompetence on the left though either. My point was about how ideology based in the belief of “my team being right no matter what” is dangerous and it definitely exists on both sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted November 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Justafan said: I don't care if you take potshots at Republicans. They deserve all the criticism they get and I'll be right there with you for most of it. I won't turn a blind eye to the hypocrisy or incompetence on the left though either. My point was about how ideology based in the belief of “my team being right no matter what” is dangerous and it definitely exists on both sides. I just don't see it that way when it comes to relativity in our current circumstance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Justafan said: Unless you're saying you didn't. I'm not responsible for your poor reading comprehension skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, IsntLifeFunny said: I just don't see it that way when it comes to relativity in our current circumstance. I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted November 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, Justafan said: I know. You disagree? Has there ever been a majority of Democrats being led by a cult? Not that I know of. I can point to one with Republicans right now and say yes, that's a fucking cult. Steve Bannon is now selling merchandise called Trump Davidians. This being after Trump opened his campaign on the 30th anniversary of Waco...in Waco Texas. It isn't the same amigo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 As I'm seeing people 2 hours ago, Justafan said: I see I've upset the mob. Yup, if you criticize diversity in any way, you must be a homophobic racist who hates everyone who isn't white. If you say people on the extreme left are a threat, it doesn't count unless there was the wrong song playing at one of their rallies. You can't criticize the left because TRUMP! If you can't step back and objectively look at the reaction I just got and the responses and consider that MAYBE dogma and closemindedness are a problem... on both sides... then I'm wasting my time. And it's my fault because I attempted to have a reasonable conversation with unreasonable people. Jumping back in here, I'm feeling things just split with @Justafan and the rest of y'all between Democrats serving in Congress and any all else falling under liberal/left wing. True I don't think those Dems in Congress are a real threat to our representative democracy, but there has been a significant increase of illiberal, intolerant thought by those who by definition are in theory the liberals. Some of that is rooted in fear of allowing extremist usually right-wing and/or fascist ideals to spread (which they have... Mahalo social media!), or also via the urgency set upon the world by realizations of climate change. Still, so many of the would be do-gooders who really do have their hearts in the right place tend to view a few too many Tik Toks and think they can solve mideast peace and climate change today. They really do mean well, because we SHOULD care that innocent Palestinians are being slaughtered, but protesting if not outright threatening or attacking American Jews - so many of which are very much not linked in ideology with the Netanyahu gov't - is just ignorant. And I really don't think most of those folks who think we should never burn another gallon of oil ever again starting right this second would like to see the outcome, nor have the blood on their hands at what that would look like in mortality rates via starvation alone. Yes, woulda/shoulda/coulda done better by this so long ago, but still have to work from a very imperfect now, not a fantasy of what we wish it were. I don't feel most or maybe any posting here the extreme being referenced. But that doesn't change the fact there are indeed those deep in their own ideologies on what is considered left on the spectrum that shut down or else shut out anything not in lock step with their belief system. And that is what I was talking about to begin with. We're where we are now because so many shut down all others without spending a moment to listen and reflect. Reactive defensiveness is the name of the game. Been noted by so many that a large percentage of Trump/right wing supporters felt exactly that: marginalized without a voice, talked to not heard. Made them ripe for the picking for whomever would act like they were on their team. In many ways put there on a tee served up to a guy like Trump dating back to the Southern Strategy. Wish I had a solution here. Only one is same refrain we've heard for years: need to listen to each other. Can't reach everyone that way, can't "save" them all. But without some people making honest efforts on that front, it's not getting any better. Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Justafan said: I don't care if you take potshots at Republicans. They deserve all the criticism they get and I'll be right there with you for most of it. I won't turn a blind eye to the hypocrisy or incompetence on the left though either. My point was about how ideology based in the belief of “my team being right no matter what” is dangerous and it definitely exists on both sides. The problem, however, isn't that both sides have an “I’m right, they're wrong” dogma. That’s just human nature. That has been the way of our politics since the founding of the country. But up until recently, mostly at least, we have still managed to have a democratically elected representative government. Congress generally did the will of the voters. The problem isn’t that there is political dogma. The problem is that now one side believes that their dogma trumps democracy. IsntLifeFunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, reo said: I'm not responsible for your poor reading comprehension skills. You are responsible for the tone of your posts however. Edited November 19, 2023 by Justafan Strunk'sDessert 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Starkiller said: The problem, however, isn't that both sides have an “I’m right, they're wrong” dogma. That’s just human nature. That has been the way of our politics since the founding of the country. But up until recently, mostly at least, we have still managed to have a democratically elected representative government. Congress generally did the will of the voters. The problem isn’t that there is political dogma. The problem is that now one side believes that their dogma trumps democracy. I disagree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, Justafan said: I disagree. Which part… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 Just now, Starkiller said: Which part… The part about Dogma being a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted November 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) I disagree fully with your post @chef. I've lived in the south most of my life. The elite coastal liberals had damn near nothing to do with the rise of MAGA. Bush destroying the economy and then a black man coming into office had much more to do with it than any notion cancel culture or woke elites fanned the flames. Edited November 19, 2023 by IsntLifeFunny Starkiller, and MadMax 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted November 19, 2023 Report Share Posted November 19, 2023 (edited) Just now, Justafan said: The part about Dogma being a problem. When did dogma not exist in politics??? Edited November 19, 2023 by Starkiller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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