MamlngEnvy Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Starkiller said: Workers get more money to spend. How is that hard to understand? So people spend more at your place but the cost of supplies and labor has near doubled...hooray? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamlngEnvy Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 10 hours ago, WG53 said: Incorrect. Decades of corporations getting tax cut after tax cut has done that. I agree trickle down is bullshit, I guess we’ll see what happens with this though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, 52O said: So people spend more at your place but the cost of supplies and labor has near doubled...hooray? Supplies won’t double...most people aren’t making 7.25 so it isn’t as if labor costs are going up that much. Even if labor costs were to double, which they won’t, the supply side doesn’t work like that in most industries anyways. It would in a few like restaurants because they have very thin margins and are paying their employees 2.50 and hour, which I noted earlier in the thread will have repercussions in the restaurant industry, but for most industries this will have very little if any effect on their bottom line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Justafan said: The problem isn't the minimum wage, though I'm fine if they raise it. The problem is that policy and practice have steadily chipped away at the value of labor even as productivity has steadily increased. Instead of requiring employers to pay a person more money than they are worth to them, we should institute policies that make that person more valuable to the employer. Managers don't want to raise wages even when they are seeing record profits year after year. They don't see their employees as an investment and would rather return money to stockholders to boost the value of the company. They don't have to raise wages because there simply isn't enough demand to force them to. If they were losing good employees regularly, they would be forced to raise wages to compete but they aren't so they don't. It's that simple. To this point, one of the only good things Trump did was appoint Jay Powell to manage the Fed. Many, including Janet Yellen, were convinced they were running the economy too hot and that's why there was actually some stagnation in 2016. Many thought they were at full employment and they risked inflation by keeping rates too low. Powell knew there was still room to expand the economy with low interest rates. There was still room to lower unemployment, raise workforce participation. Lower unemployment and higher workforce participation puts pressure on employers to both invest in their current work force and offer higher wages to draw in more workers because it creates a tight labor market. What you're describing is the result of there being an abundance of workers out there. Of course companies treat people like commodities when they can. They only care about profit and there's no profit in taking care of your workers when another "human widget" can replace them with minimal costs. Edited January 17, 2021 by Titans279 Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Go on let's continue having this conversation pretending that the theoretical small businesses affected by raising the minimum wage haven't already been put out of business by the joke of the covid stimulus thus far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Titans279 said: To this point, one of the only good things Trump did was appoint Jay Powell to manage the Fed. Many, including Janet Yellen, were convinced they were running the economy too hot and that's why there was actually some stagnation in 2016. Many thought they were at full employment and they risked inflation by keeping rates too low. Powell knew there was still room to expand the economy with low interest rates. There was still room to lower unemployment, raise workforce participation. Lower unemployment and higher workforce participation puts pressure on employers to both invest in their current work force and offer higher wages to draw in more workers because it creates a tight labor market. What you're describing is the result of there being an abundance of workers out there. Of course companies treat people like commodities when they can. They only care about profit and there's no profit in taking care of your workers when another "human widget" can replace them with minimal costs. Absolutely. Labor is abundant and the only labor that is actually valuable these days is highly technical skilled jobs and jobs that require high levels of education. The problem isn't that companies aren't paying people what they are worth, the problem is that people aren't worth what they desire in a global economy. If I'm a big corporation and I need someone to do a menial job that doesn't require much skill, what possible incentive do I have to pay you more when I can pay someone else less? Raising minimum wage will encourage large companies to move out of the united states where labor, usually their biggest overhead cost, is even cheaper and regulation isn't so heavily enforced. I'm not necessarily opposed to raising the minimum wage but I don't think it actually solves very much. nine 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanthakur Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 8 hours ago, patsplat said: Go on let's continue having this conversation pretending that the theoretical small businesses affected by raising the minimum wage haven't already been put out of business by the joke of the covid stimulus thus far. I thought we were trying to get corporations to create more jobs in America. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, titanthakur said: I thought we were trying to get corporations to create more jobs in America. Why would we want millions of new poverty wage level jobs? Edited January 18, 2021 by Starkiller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamlngEnvy Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 19 hours ago, Starkiller said: Economics... Lol well that’s a lie. Bet 70% of those people won’t get raises. I’ve been in the food industry my whole life and the people who worked hard to make more money never got raises when minimum wage was voted up. It’s a nice thought, but not exactly how it works Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, 52O said: Lol well that’s a lie. Bet 70% of those people won’t get raises. I’ve been in the food industry my whole life and the people who worked hard to make more money never got raises when minimum wage was voted up. It’s a nice thought, but not exactly how it works A rising tide lifts all boats. Any increase in minimum wage will inherently also increase wages for people who were anywhere near the new minimum wage. Same thing happened with previous minimum wage increases. This is the point of competitive pricing among employers. It isn’t always immediate, but this is what happens. Edited January 18, 2021 by Starkiller pamo9, and ChemEngr79 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Starkiller said: A rising tide lifts all boats. Any increase in minimum wage will inherently also increase wages for people who were anywhere near the new minimum wage. Same thing happened with previous minimum wage increases. This is the point of competitive pricing among employers. It isn’t always immediate, but this is what happens. This is somewhat of a logical fallacy. Just because in the past A happened and the. b occurred does not mean it will have the same effect this time. If wages do not rise across the board and prices do as a direct causation then yes the middle class is once again footing the bill. All I’m saying is this isn’t as cut and dry as some of you would like to make it. oldschool, MamlngEnvy, and Rogue 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamlngEnvy Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: This is somewhat of a logical fallacy. Just because in the past A happened and the. b occurred does not mean it will have the same effect this time. If wages do not rise across the board and prices do as a direct causation then yes the middle class is once again footing the bill. All I’m saying is this isn’t as cut and dry as some of you would like to make it. So wait you semi agree with me...yet you said what I said was really stupid, hmmm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 minute ago, 52O said: So wait you semi agree with me...yet you said what I said was really stupid, hmmm Yes, your phraseology was stupid. You were doing the same thing from the other side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamlngEnvy Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 minute ago, IsntLifeFunny said: Yes, your phraseology was stupid. You were doing the same thing from the other side. What I said was federal mandated $15 minimum wage is dumb. You didn’t ask why you just said I was stupid..: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamlngEnvy Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: Yes, your phraseology was stupid. You were doing the same thing from the other side. Never mind I’m trippin That’s on me I said minimum wage is for high school kids. I stand by that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.