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Panthers Recap Thread


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Derrick Henry's snap count vs Dion Lewis is ridiculous. How the hell is Lewis getting that much play? To justify his roster spot? Shouldn't that be the other way around?

Why is Lewis ever in the game? Wtf is wrong with Lewan? Wtf can teams do simple pass to known rb pass catchers in red zone? Why are we playing so much zone? Why can't we shut down

23 minutes ago, cenj said:

 

I strongly disagree.

 

Tannehill helped us win 2/3 games and I think if Mariota was starting, we'd likely be 2-7 right now.

 

Also, if we had started Tannehill at the beginning of the season, the chances we would have won a couple of those close games is pretty high. The Colts, Bills, Broncos, and Jags all scored 20 or fewer points. We win two of those earlier games, and if the team had more time to build chemistry early on, then maybe this season wouldn't be so doom and gloom.

 

 

People have complained about the coaching and holes in the roster ad nauseum but this is the biggest indictment of this FO/Coaching staff. Whether it was AAS, JRob, or Vrabel’s decision to not have a qb competition and wait 6 games before pulling the plug on Mariota is irrelevant. It shows how much disfunction still exists within our teams top figures. There is no way they couldn’t see Tannehill was better. The hope is that they are now all on the same page, but I’m quite skeptical of that. 

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2 hours ago, Thrill said:

I honestly think with a back like McCaffrey, you let him beat you on the ground. Sell out to stop him in the passing game and let him get 150 yards on the ground. You have a much higher probability of forcing a 4th down by allowing some running lanes than you do in the passing game. It seems that was the plan but he was able to do just enough in the passing game to still make us pay.

If I was the dc that was what i was thinking. Go 2 dl and put wood, brown and evans all on the field. Play like we are a 4-3 for a week. They can all move and are great tacklers.

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On 11/5/2019 at 4:22 PM, Soxcat said:

On D you have one player you want to shut down and make the others beat you.  We obviously didn't do that.

Our best offensive player split snaps with a dud.  Coming out with the purpose of getting the worst offensive player the ball is moronic.

Per PFF Tannehill is the 12th rated QB.  We have Henry, Corey Davis, Brown, Smith, Humphries and the 12th ranked QB and they come out wanting to get Lewis the ball more?  Yea, we have a problem.  And sorry Nate Davis, there are guys on practice squads we can get to play better than that.  Go steal one and put Davis on IR for that injury he apparently has.

 

The coaches did let us down and we saw some of the same BS last year at times where the game plan is ass backwards.  Makes you wonder if Vrabel is pulling too many of the strings to me.  Maybe he needs to let the other coaches coach.  Not sure.  Any HC that says the plan was to get Lewis more touches is touched in the head.

I like how you reiterated your previous point but then went on to add to it!

good stuff

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On 11/5/2019 at 11:01 AM, cenj said:

 

I strongly disagree.

 

Tannehill helped us win 2/3 games and I think if Mariota was starting, we'd likely be 2-7 right now.

 

Also, if we had started Tannehill at the beginning of the season, the chances we would have won a couple of those close games is pretty high. The Colts, Bills, Broncos, and Jags all scored 20 or fewer points. We win two of those earlier games, and if the team had more time to build chemistry early on, then maybe this season wouldn't be so doom and gloom.

 

 

possibly but we could just as easily be 0-3 in the games that Tannehill has started.

so hard to really say what would have been.  Teams play differently depending on game situation.  I think we would have found that Tannehill may have thrown away some of those games but just in the complete opposite fashion that Mariota did.

I would prefer that we lose with out QB throwing the ball so I would be fine with Tannehill but I wouldn't be surprised at all had Tannehill started the year people would be calling for Mariota right now.

 

this is a doom and gloom season and I think it would have been regardless.  We aren't in an easy division either so it is what it is.  We need to get better from top of the org. to the bottom.  just so you know that ain't happening.

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Watching the condensed game now.

 

The first drive Tannehill took a bad sack that led to the missed FG attempt.

 

Then the OL just kept committing penalties, holding, hands to the face, false starts. Terrible.

 

Then Dion Lewis fumbled. He was actually playing well until that fumble.

 

Vrabel finally had a good challenge.

 

I didn't mind the play calling so far...

Tannehill with the high throw that let to the pick then two penalties giving them easy 7 points from the 15.

 

Jonnu with the drop when he was wide open.

Tannehill and Brown again can't connect.

 

Defense gives up a 6 minute TD drive to end the half. Should have held them to a FG.

 

Nice 1 minute drive... Tannehill again with a sack before the missed FG...

 

Going heavy Henry to start 3rd and it's working.

Brown false starts WTF

 

Jackson made some good plays this game.

Defense can't hold them anymore.

 

Tannehill sacked instantly... ruins drive

 

Liked the play calling on this TD drive. I guess I don't see the hate for the play calling in this game. Seems like the poor discipline ruined their chances on offense too many times though.

 

Defense gives up the killer long run... Sucks.

 

Offense is cooking but then Tannehill with the bad pick there... also sucks.

 

Offensive penalty wipes out the great PI play...

More plays for Lewis that go no where...

Tannehill with some nice throws and the good run for a TD.

Seemed like Hump should have caught that 2pc.

 

 

Overall thoughts:
Tannehill was solid. He showed his tendency to take some sacks and throw some picks but it could have been overcome without all the terrible penalties. He's good enough that you can win with him but he isn't going to elevate your team. He's a competent NFL starter. Assuming he stays healthy he's likely our QB next year. We don't have to draft one in round 1 unless there's an opportunity to go get a guy we love. Gotta wonder if they force a pick to buy them time though...

 

Succop 0/3. Jesus.

 

Play calling seemed alright to me. Wasn't the problem in this game. PENALTIES.

 

Defense was again solid but is not elite. This isn't a "championship defense" but it's a good one.

 

The season is essentially over now. Not much chance at the playoffs. I'm not sure how they sell the team next year though.

 

They tried "good to great" and are probably going to finish 7-9, a step back from the past 3 seasons. What additions are they going to make in 2020 that will make anyone think the team won't be mediocre again?

 

Edited by Titans279
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7 hours ago, Titans279 said:

Watching the condensed game now.

 

The first drive Tannehill took a bad sack that led to the missed FG attempt.

 

Then the OL just kept committing penalties, holding, hands to the face, false starts. Terrible.

 

Then Dion Lewis fumbled. He was actually playing well until that fumble.

 

Vrabel finally had a good challenge.

 

I didn't mind the play calling so far...

Tannehill with the high throw that let to the pick then two penalties giving them easy 7 points from the 15.

 

Jonnu with the drop when he was wide open.

Tannehill and Brown again can't connect.

 

Defense gives up a 6 minute TD drive to end the half. Should have held them to a FG.

 

Nice 1 minute drive... Tannehill again with a sack before the missed FG...

 

Going heavy Henry to start 3rd and it's working.

Brown false starts WTF

 

Jackson made some good plays this game.

Defense can't hold them anymore.

 

Tannehill sacked instantly... ruins drive

 

Liked the play calling on this TD drive. I guess I don't see the hate for the play calling in this game. Seems like the poor discipline ruined their chances on offense too many times though.

 

Defense gives up the killer long run... Sucks.

 

Offense is cooking but then Tannehill with the bad pick there... also sucks.

 

Offensive penalty wipes out the great PI play...

More plays for Lewis that go no where...

Tannehill with some nice throws and the good run for a TD.

Seemed like Hump should have caught that 2pc.

 

 

Overall thoughts:
Tannehill was solid. He showed his tendency to take some sacks and throw some picks but it could have been overcome without all the terrible penalties. He's good enough that you can win with him but he isn't going to elevate your team. He's a competent NFL starter. Assuming he stays healthy he's likely our QB next year. We don't have to draft one in round 1 unless there's an opportunity to go get a guy we love. Gotta wonder if they force a pick to buy them time though...

 

Succop 0/3. Jesus.

 

Play calling seemed alright to me. Wasn't the problem in this game. PENALTIES.

 

Defense was again solid but is not elite. This isn't a "championship defense" but it's a good one.

 

The season is essentially over now. Not much chance at the playoffs. I'm not sure how they sell the team next year though.

 

They tried "good to great" and are probably going to finish 7-9, a step back from the past 3 seasons. What additions are they going to make in 2020 that will make anyone think the team won't be mediocre again?

 

Pretty much nailed it. The "Arthur Smith is killing the franchise" hoopla is exaggerated and I'm surprised to see knowledgeable people just run with it. Even if you concede he hasn't been amazing, this wasn't the game you'd use to exemplify that. The players gotta bear some responsibility at some point.

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2 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Pretty much nailed it. The "Arthur Smith is killing the franchise" hoopla is exaggerated and I'm surprised to see knowledgeable people just run with it. Even if you concede he hasn't been amazing, this wasn't the game you'd use to exemplify that. The players gotta bear some responsibility at some point.

I think he’s learning on the job. The only change I absolutely want is Kieth Carter gone. I don’t really mind Smiths general offense. I have been extremely pissed off with the overall game plans the last two weeks. Like essentially not targeting the opponents weaknesses is so insane it’s beyond words. So I wouldn’t be upset if Smith was fire but I’d also be fine if he stayed with a new Oline coach. Can we pull Grimm out of retirement?

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2 hours ago, Mythos27 said:

Pretty much nailed it. The "Arthur Smith is killing the franchise" hoopla is exaggerated and I'm surprised to see knowledgeable people just run with it. Even if you concede he hasn't been amazing, this wasn't the game you'd use to exemplify that. The players gotta bear some responsibility at some point.

Arthur Smith is making Terry Robiskie look like a great OC.  He's really, really bad.

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I don't have too much of an issue with Arthur Smith so far this year outside of the Panthers game overall strategy and not using Henry enough and not targeting Corey Davis more. Maybe that will improve. 

 

He's a rookie play caller with an opportunity to grow with a better QB for the rest of the season and to learn from his mistakes. I think he needs to emphasize discipline and pre-snap efficiency (cadence, getting certain players to eliminate their tells, pre snap penalties, etc). 

 

We need a better OL coach/run game coordinator though, imo. 

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1 hour ago, abc2330 said:

Arthur Smith is making Terry Robiskie look like a great OC.  He's really, really bad.

Wrong. The vandetta against Smith is an excuse to cover up for underperforming players. It's easier to blame and then change an OC than it is to overhaul a good chunk of your offensive talent. Smith has called more good/decent games than he has bad ones.

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8 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Wrong. The vandetta against Smith is an excuse to cover up for underperforming players. It's easier to blame and then change an OC than it is to overhaul a good chunk of your offensive talent. Smith has called more good/decent games than he has bad ones.

Look at the big picture.  We've been held scoreless in 4/9 contests in the first half, we've gone a span of 10 quarters with only 7 points scored, we are scoring fewer PPG in relatively good health than we did a year ago with terrible injury luck, we've had one 100 yard receiving performance and one 100 yard rushing performance, Henry is averaging a career low YPC, Marita is having the worst year of his career despite his best supporting cast, we are one of the worst teams in 3 and outs and converting 3rd down, we went from the least penalized offense to one of the most penalized.  I could go on and on about how shirty this offense is.  I'm not seeing anything which suggests we've been good on offense in any way.  We've been fucking terrible , and we know that the talent is there to be better.  You have to look at the guy calling the shots who is supposed to be putting these players in a position to succeed, and he's terrible at it.  

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Just now, abc2330 said:

Look at the big picture.  We've been held scoreless in 4/9 contests in the first half, we've gone a span of 10 quarters with only 7 points scored, we are scoring fewer PPG in relatively good health than we did a year ago with terrible injury luck, we've had one 100 yard receiving performance and one 100 yard rushing performance, Henry is averaging a career low YPC, Marita is having the worst year of his career despite his best supporting cast, we are one of the worst teams in 3 and outs and converting 3rd down.  I could go on and on about how shirty this offense is.  I'm not seeing anything which suggests we've been good on offense in any way.  We've been fucking terrible , and we know that the talent is there to be better.  You have to look at the guy calling the shots who is supposed to be putting these players in a position to succeed, and he's terrible at it.  

The issues that you raise are legitimate I just don't agree that the OC is the main problem. Since Tannehill took over the offense has been visibly better than they were under Mariota. I see Smith slowly growing into the job and a team that struggles unless things go perfectly. Smith just isn't putting these players in such a bad situation that they can't help but fail. Can he get better? Hell yeah, but he isn't there primary reason we're struggling. Ultimately I think he may lose his job over this but I promise you the new guy won't fare much better.

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