Fight to the death: Knife vs bat who wins?

[Legaltitan]

53 minutes ago, NashvilleNinja said:

Who the hell trains to use a bat like that?

Trains?

Not sure there are many bat fight trainers out there, period.  I'm assuming this is about two average relatively untrained assholes in a fight to the death. 

Have any of you fuckers actually been in a real fight?

You go in throwing haymakers and hail Mary's you're going to end up getting your ass kicked.

What's the rush?  This is to the death, right?  Seems to me it's important enough to take your time a bit.

With just some basic common sense and patience average bat guy destroys average knife guy.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Legaltitan

[Legaltitan]

30 minutes ago, Justafan said:

You try to rap me on the wrist with a bat and it's already over. This is about violence not Strategy. No one here is Bruce Lee with a bat.

lol

Come in all aggressive with your knife and I will wear your ass out, small blow by blow.  The hits will add up quickly.  Don't worry it won't be long before you are on the ground getting your head caved in to put you out of your mercy.

Seriously you guys watch too much TV.  "It's about violence, not strategy."  lol - with no strategy you and your little knife will be put down violently by a bat.

[Justafan]

7 minutes ago, Legaltitan said:

lol

Come in all aggressive with your knife and I will wear your ass out, small blow by blow.  The hits will add up quickly.  Don't worry it won't be long before you are on the ground getting your head caved in to put you out of your mercy.

Seriously you guys watch too much TV.  "It's about violence, not strategy."  lol - with no strategy you and your little knife will be put down violently by a bat.

I tell you what, you tell me your experience with combat and I'll tell you mine and we can let everyone decide who's been watching too much tv.

[Legaltitan]

38 minutes ago, Justafan said:

I tell you what, you tell me your experience with combat and I'll tell you mine and we can let everyone decide who's been watching too much tv.

Why so defensive? And why play coy?  If you are trained in the use of arms in combat then just say so.  Cuz that would change everything about what I said.  Yes, a guy well-trained in knife combat is going to beat the bat guy and pretty much anyone else that isn't similarly trained, absent a gun.

I assume this mental exercise were about to regular Joes, one with a bat and one with a knife.

I have been in regular guy fights.   I have not been in "combat."  So if you have, or have been trained in hand to hand combat, you would beat the shit out of me and my bat and probably wouldn't need the knife.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Legaltitan

[wiscotitansfan]

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

No one here is Bruce Lee with a bat.

Possibly one of my favorite individual sentences on this site's history when given the context

[Justafan]

14 minutes ago, Legaltitan said:

Why so defensive? And why play coy?  If you are trained in the use of arms in combat then just say so.  Cuz that would change everything about what I said.  Yes, a guy well-trained in knife combat is going to beat the bat guy and pretty much anyone else that isn't similarly trained, absent a gun.

I assume this mental exercise were about to regular Joes, one with a bat and one with a knife.

I have been in regular guy fights.   I have not been in "combat."  So if you have, or have been trained in hand to hand combat, you would beat the shit out of me and my bat and probably wouldn't need the knife.

Not defensive (sorry if that came off pretentious, I just found it a little funny), and i'm no knife expert but I think pretty much everyone on the board knows i'm in the army and i've been deployed multiple times in a combat unit.

Even in "regular guy fights", I would argue that the more violent guy almost always wins over the guy who is trying to be strategic.  Unless you have training, and then of course it becomes more of a chess match but that's not the situation that's been presented.

Personally, I would probably try to get the guy on the ground where I feel much more confident I can control him and keep him from hurting me in the process.  That's of course assuming I can't run away, call for help, or just buy the guy a beer and then hit him over the back of the head when he's not looking.  Nothing's off limits once there's no other course of action.

[Legaltitan]

Didn't know you were in the Army.  That's cool.  If you know what you are doing with a knife, then it is a great weapon.

Problem is most people don't really know what they are doing when it comes to wielding a knife.

And yeah you right you have to be more violent than the other guy to win a fight.  But strategy is important, too, or at least is when in this scenario.  With the bat you have the less dangerous weapon but with a huge advantage in reach.

Again, my whole take on this think is two untrained dudes.  I don't think your average guy would know how to effectively wield a knife, and with a modicum of strategery I think the bat guy would whip his ass.  Not talking a chess match so much as just good tactics in wielding the bat.  Like you said, it takes a while to recover to swing the bat again.  Thus, don't swing for the fences.  Go for smaller quicker strikes.  Those can be plenty violent.  I'm talking about the way a boxer would use his jab to set up a cross or hook or upper cut. 

I guess what I'm saying is violence doesn't have to preclude strategy.  Controlled violence is the key.  At least in this scenario where weapons are involved, and one wrong move can do you in.  But even with no weapons, many a big strong dumbass has gotten himself destroyed going in aggressively throwing haymakers, which are easily avoided.  If you are fighting someone that is a scared and intimidated then yeah rush on in there and seize the advantage.  Problem is you usually don't know what you're dealing with when a fight breaks out.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Legaltitan

[Justafan]

16 minutes ago, Legaltitan said:

Didn't know you were in the Army.  That's cool.  If you know what you are doing with a knife, then it is a great weapon.

Problem is most people don't really know what they are doing when it comes to wielding a knife.

And yeah you right you have to be more violent than the other guy to win a fight.  But strategy is important, too, or at least is when in this scenario.  With the bat you have the less dangerous weapon but with a huge advantage in reach.

Again, my whole take on this think is two untrained dudes.  I don't think your average guy would know how to effectively wield a knife, and with a modicum of strategery I think the bat guy would whip his ass.  Not talking a chess match so much as just good tactics in wielding the bat.  Like you said, it takes a while to recover to swing the bat again.  Thus, don't swing for the fences.  Go for smaller quicker strikes.  Those can be plenty violent.  I'm talking about the way a boxer would use his jab to set up a cross or hook or upper cut. 

I guess what I'm saying is violence doesn't have to preclude strategy.  Controlled violence is the key.  At least in this scenario where weapons are involved, and one wrong move can do you in.  But even with no weapons, many a big strong dumbass has gotten himself destroyed going in aggressively throwing haymakers, which are easily avoided.  If you are fighting someone that is a scared and intimidated then yeah rush on in there and seize the advantage.  Problem is you usually don't know what you're dealing with when a fight breaks out.

It's hard to argue with most of that.  

You should be a lawyer or something.  Seriously though, The best way to knife fight (From people who do actually know what they are doing, not me)  is to simply not let you see them coming and use overwhelming violence.

 

 

[abenjami]

Who brings a jacket to a knife fight?

[Justafan]

6 minutes ago, abenjami said:

Who brings a jacket to a knife fight?

The guy who wishes he brought a bat as he lies dying on the ground?

[OILERMAN]

Legal,

You're making it way too easy to use the bat vs the knife. It's not going to be easy just to hit someone with a bat. The bat presents two problems, you have to recover from a missed swing and that takes time. The harder you swing the harder and longer to recover from the missed swing.

Lets say someone outside the swing zone starts feigning in with the knife acting as if they are going to stab you. You honestly think it's going to be easy to cut loose and land a hard blow? People saying bat are underestimating how hard it would be to land a clean shot. You have to make sure they are really coming and you can't make one mistake with a miss.

The other problem is you'll tire swinging a bat. You're best defense vs. someone coming at you with a knife is swinging it repeatedly.

If you try to use the bat in some fancy way I have no doubt your ass is going to get stabbed. If the bat isn't used with powerful swings it becomes a weak weapon. You have to make damn sure the opponent doesn't grab the bat. You have to use two hands to effectively swing the bat, someone with a knife can stab you one handed. 

You don't have to know how to use a knife to stab someone.

 

[Justafan]

17 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

Legal,

You're making it way too easy to use the bat vs the knife. It's not going to be easy just to hit someone with a bat. The bat presents two problems, you have to recover from a missed swing and that takes time. The harder you swing the harder and longer to recover from the missed swing.

Lets say someone outside the swing zone starts feigning in with the knife acting as if they are going to stab you. You honestly think it's going to be easy to cut loose and land a hard blow? People saying bat are underestimating how hard it would be to land a clean shot. You have to make sure they are really coming and you can't make one mistake with a miss.

The other problem is you'll tire swinging a bat. You're best defense vs. someone coming at you with a knife is swinging it repeatedly.

If you try to use the bat in some fancy way I have no doubt your ass is going to get stabbed. If the bat isn't used with powerful swings it becomes a weak weapon. You have to make damn sure the opponent doesn't grab the bat. You have to use two hands to effectively swing the bat, someone with a knife can stab you one handed. 

You don't have to know how to use a knife to stab someone.

 

Or cut someone.  Again, I think it's the fighter and not the weapon that matters.

[abenjami]

15 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

Legal,

You're making it way too easy to use the bat vs the knife. It's not going to be easy just to hit someone with a bat. The bat presents two problems, you have to recover from a missed swing and that takes time. The harder you swing the harder and longer to recover from the missed swing.

Lets say someone outside the swing zone starts feigning in with the knife acting as if they are going to stab you. You honestly think it's going to be easy to cut loose and land a hard blow? People saying bat are underestimating how hard it would be to land a clean shot. You have to make sure they are really coming and you can't make one mistake with a miss.

The other problem is you'll tire swinging a bat. You're best defense vs. someone coming at you with a knife is swinging it repeatedly.

If you try to use the bat in some fancy way I have no doubt your ass is going to get stabbed. If the bat isn't used with powerful swings it becomes a weak weapon. You have to make damn sure the opponent doesn't grab the bat. You have to use two hands to effectively swing the bat, someone with a knife can stab you one handed. 

You don't have to know how to use a knife to stab someone.

 

It really depends on who has the bat.  This is all true for some people but there are also a large number of people who would do just fine with the bat.

You don't need to swing for the fences to do damage with the bat.  Those who support the knife seem to think the person with the bat is just going to be swinging wild hay makers until they tire out.  This isn't reality.  The bat isn't going to be swinging until you get close enough.

Pretty much any kind of decent contact, even with a jab or a quarter swing, is going to cause enough damage and lead to more hits.

Seriously, go pick up a real bat and hit yourself in the forearm or shin about 5% of what you think 100% would be.  It will fucking hurt like hell and you'll be lucky if you don't fracture a bone.

 

[abenjami]

2 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Or cut someone.  Again, I think it's the fighter and not the weapon that matters.

Absolutely, but the point of the hypothetical is being lost.  The hypothetical assumes all things are equal...size, weight, skill, training, etc.

[OILERMAN]

2 minutes ago, abenjami said:

Pretty much any kind of decent contact, even with a jab or a quarter swing, is going to cause enough damage and lead to more hits.

 

I can assure you if I'm fighting for my life a "jab" or quarter swing is not going to stop me from being a real threat to stab the bat yielder.

I'm not even sure a full contact hit on my arm/body would do it.