The Athletic Football Show breaks down The offensive environment Ward is going to/2024 offensive scheme breakdown

[Callidus]

8 hours ago, japan said:

Jury is out on Callahan. While I did like his offense early on when he was scheming guys open, that was about all there was to like. He really struggled as a play caller and definitely took on way too much.  If he was smart he’d offload the coordinating but he’s not doing that. His dad underperformed also, as the left side of the line severely underperformed and that was the ‘good, high draft pick’ side.  The Callahan reputation rehab tour going on here is interesting to say the least…

Two issues with this. I will for this exercise assume he is a bad play caller.

 

Offloading playcalling to someone else means you have a good playcaller available. They are not just tons of they laying around. 

 

Second if you do find a good one they are going to be gone in a short period of time. Its the whole reason people want an offensive head coach to begin with. To create stability for the offense in an offense driven league. 

[Mythos27]

8 hours ago, japan said:

Jury is out on Callahan. While I did like his offense early on when he was scheming guys open, that was about all there was to like. He really struggled as a play caller and definitely took on way too much.  If he was smart he’d offload the coordinating but he’s not doing that. His dad underperformed also, as the left side of the line severely underperformed and that was the ‘good, high draft pick’ side.  The Callahan reputation rehab tour going on here is interesting to say the least…

No disrespect but I don't think most fans, myself included know enough to judge NFL play calling. We have no idea what the thought process was behind the calls, what personnel issues led to the call being made, or what's caused the play to fail outside of the most obvious stuff. I think that we can pick out the most obvious or surface level stuff but that's about it. The issues on the left side of the line , and I know people will hate this, are talent related too. At LT, you've got a young player that is struggling to transition from RT to LT, and a slightly less young player transitioning from LT to a guard position he never played before last year. It could work out but if course there will be growing pains. Like I said before we took Latham; you can't hide your LT. I can't speak for others but it's not reputation rehab for me; I thought Callahan was WAY down the list of problems during the season and I feel the same now. 

[OILERMAN]

1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

No disrespect but I don't think most fans, myself included know enough to judge NFL play calling. 

 

 

[japan]

23 hours ago, Starkiller said:

The jury is out on every young coach who hasn’t won yet

Good point.  Poor choice of words.  I hope he does pan out but I'm definitely not expecting him to...

[japan]

Man, lot of hardcore Callahan love on the board all of a sudden.  I'll watch what I say about him and his prospects in the future...

[Pragidealist]

16 hours ago, Callidus said:

Two issues with this. I will for this exercise assume he is a bad play caller.

 

Offloading playcalling to someone else means you have a good playcaller available. They are not just tons of they laying around. 

 

Second if you do find a good one they are going to be gone in a short period of time. Its the whole reason people want an offensive head coach to begin with. To create stability for the offense in an offense driven league. 

 

You guys WAY overrate play calling. 

 

1. Talent > Playcaller

• PFF & Football Outsiders have consistently shown that QB performance, OL protection, and WR separation are far stronger predictors of offensive success than scheme or playcalling.
• Example: Kyle Shanahan’s system works incredibly well with talent (Deebo, CMC, Trent Williams)—but struggled when QBs or OL were injured, even with the same playcaller.
• In contrast, "great" playcallers with poor talent (e.g., Josh McDaniels with the Raiders, Adam Gase anywhere) have consistently failed.

2. Scripted Plays (Prep) Drive Early Success

• According to ESPN Stats & Info, teams average higher EPA/play in their first 15 scripted plays, suggesting game-planning and pre-call design are more impactful than on-the-fly adjustments.
• Once teams leave the script, results vary much more based on player execution and matchup quality.

3. Coaching Staff Structure Matters More Than the Caller

• Multiple teams have thrived even after changing who called plays, because the underlying offensive architecture and preparation remained the same:
• Andy Reid and Eric Bieniemy (Reid had final say, but Bieniemy handled heavy prep).
• Sean McVay built the system, but Kevin O’Connell and Matt LaFleur called plays under him before becoming HCs.
• This supports the idea that the system + prep + cohesion > individual gameday playcaller.

4. Execution is King

• Former coaches like Mike Martz and Bill Parcells have argued that players execute concepts, not magical playcalls.
• NFL veteran Ryan Fitzpatrick once said: “We run the same 10 concepts 100 different ways… the players just have to win.”

Rough Estimation

• If you break down the contribution to play success:
• Player talent & matchups: ~60–70%
• Pre-game scheme & scouting: ~20–25%
• Live playcall (in-game): ~5–10%

Situational Play calling is icing on a cake.  

 

Edited May 19 by Pragidealist

[Callidus]

22 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

 

You guys WAY overrate play calling. 

 

1. Talent > Playcaller

• PFF & Football Outsiders have consistently shown that QB performance, OL protection, and WR separation are far stronger predictors of offensive success than scheme or playcalling.
• Example: Kyle Shanahan’s system works incredibly well with talent (Deebo, CMC, Trent Williams)—but struggled when QBs or OL were injured, even with the same playcaller.
• In contrast, "great" playcallers with poor talent (e.g., Josh McDaniels with the Raiders, Adam Gase anywhere) have consistently failed.

2. Scripted Plays (Prep) Drive Early Success

• According to ESPN Stats & Info, teams average higher EPA/play in their first 15 scripted plays, suggesting game-planning and pre-call design are more impactful than on-the-fly adjustments.
• Once teams leave the script, results vary much more based on player execution and matchup quality.

3. Coaching Staff Structure Matters More Than the Caller

• Multiple teams have thrived even after changing who called plays, because the underlying offensive architecture and preparation remained the same:
• Andy Reid and Eric Bieniemy (Reid had final say, but Bieniemy handled heavy prep).
• Sean McVay built the system, but Kevin O’Connell and Matt LaFleur called plays under him before becoming HCs.
• This supports the idea that the system + prep + cohesion > individual gameday playcaller.

4. Execution is King

• Former coaches like Mike Martz and Bill Parcells have argued that players execute concepts, not magical playcalls.
• NFL veteran Ryan Fitzpatrick once said: “We run the same 10 concepts 100 different ways… the players just have to win.”

Rough Estimation

• If you break down the contribution to play success:
• Player talent & matchups: ~60–70%
• Pre-game scheme & scouting: ~20–25%
• Live playcall (in-game): ~5–10%

Situational Play calling is icing on a cake.  

 

How deep into your ass did you have to dig to find those made up numbers? 

[cenj]

Callahan, like all coaches, needs more than 1 year before we evaluate.

 

Lots of excuses can be made for last year, but the Titans didn't just struggle -- they were literally the worst team in the NFL. They played a really easy schedule and faced a lot of bad QBs too, so it was a particularly dismal performance. There are still a number of questions about Callahan regarding his leadership, ability to develop players, and all the other things that go into running a team. But he had guys open and I don't think building a competent offense is a major concern. 

 

Levis was so bad and the WRs couldn't separate, and the OL couldn't protect again, so it's difficult to assess Callahan on the other stuff. He now has a real QB prospect who can operate an offense. I think Callahan + Cam will lead to real offensive production. The question will be is Callahan good enough at the rest of the HC job? 

[Pragidealist]

2 minutes ago, Callidus said:

How deep into your ass did you have to dig to find those made up numbers? 

 i mean-  estimating percentages is pretty easy.  Logic works though. 

 

 

[Callidus]

Just now, Pragidealist said:

 i mean-  estimating percentages is pretty easy.  Logic works though. 

 

 

You are missing the bigger picture. The guys making up those gameplans are the guys calling plays and if you are constantly cycling systems its not good for anyone was the point. 

 

As for the actual play calls not meaning anything.... then why do they even call plays? Lets just run fake punts 40 times a game. Its the execution that matter right?

[Pragidealist]

Just now, Callidus said:

You are missing the bigger picture. The guys making up those gameplans are the guys calling plays and if you are constantly cycling systems its not good for anyone was the point. 

 

As for the actual play calls not meaning anything.... then why do they even call plays? Lets just run fake punts 40 times a game. Its the execution that matter right?

 

No they are not. They are guys approving the call sheet. The call sheet is made by the coaching staff.  

[Pragidealist]

1 minute ago, Callidus said:

You are missing the bigger picture. The guys making up those gameplans are the guys calling plays and if you are constantly cycling systems its not good for anyone was the point. 

 

As for the actual play calls not meaning anything.... then why do they even call plays? Lets just run fake punts 40 times a game. Its the execution that matter right?

It seems playcalling in the NFL is far more collaborative than people realize. The way I understand the process is that throughout the week, the head coach, coordinators, position coaches, and analysts build the game plan together—charting tendencies, matchups, and scenarios. By Saturday, the call sheet is finalized, with preset menus for red zone, third down, and two-minute drills. On game day, the playcaller isn’t inventing plays—they’re selecting from options the entire staff created. Even real-time adjustments often come from the booth. In truth, playcalling is less about genius in the headset and more about executing a well-prepared team plan.

[Callidus]

12 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

It seems playcalling in the NFL is far more collaborative than people realize. The way I understand the process is that throughout the week, the head coach, coordinators, position coaches, and analysts build the game plan together—charting tendencies, matchups, and scenarios. By Saturday, the call sheet is finalized, with preset menus for red zone, third down, and two-minute drills. On game day, the playcaller isn’t inventing plays—they’re selecting from options the entire staff created. Even real-time adjustments often come from the booth. In truth, playcalling is less about genius in the headset and more about executing a well-prepared team plan.

No plan survives first contact with the enemy. Just because you go into a game with a "good" game plan doesn't mean you dont need the ability to think on your feet and switch it up not just once but multiple times a game. 

 

The nfl is a constantly evolving battle of schemes and deception. Thats why these guys make millions of dollars.

 

@OILERMANque up the dick vermil you think you know thing again. 

[Pragidealist]

6 minutes ago, Callidus said:

No plan survives first contact with the enemy. Just because you go into a game with a "good" game plan doesn't mean you dont need the ability to think on your feet and switch it up not just once but multiple times a game. 

 

The nfl is a constantly evolving battle of schemes and deception. Thats why these guys make millions of dollars.

 

@OILERMANque up the dick vermil you think you know thing again. 

Except.. they still work off the call sheet.... Even if they need to adjust the game plan- that's happening in collaboration and in the booth -- then the call sheet is updated.  

 

Totally agree that no plan survives first contact—but that’s exactly why the staff's preparation is so critical. Most of what a playcaller uses in-game was built collaboratively: situational menus, formation counters, even preloaded adjustments. By kickoff, the call sheet isn’t a guess—it’s a decision tree crafted all week by the full staff. The playcaller’s job isn’t to reinvent the wheel mid-drive—it’s to pick the right option from the crate the team built. Yeah, they need instincts and feel, but it’s not solo genius. The booth, the film guys, the analysts—they’re all feeding into it live. The million-dollar chess match starts way before Sunday.

 

Its a very collaborative process.  Coaches are managers-  not genius artists who draw out plays mid game. The success is about how well they manage and lead.  

 

That's not minimizing a coach's role.. bit contextualizes what you should be evaluating. 

Edited May 19 by Pragidealist

[Callidus]

5 minutes ago, Pragidealist said:

Except.. they still work off the call sheet.... Even if they need to adjust the game plan- that's happening in collaboration and in the booth -- then the call sheet is updated.  

 

Totally agree that no plan survives first contact—but that’s exactly why the staff's preparation is so critical. Most of what a playcaller uses in-game was built collaboratively: situational menus, formation counters, even preloaded adjustments. By kickoff, the call sheet isn’t a guess—it’s a decision tree crafted all week by the full staff. The playcaller’s job isn’t to reinvent the wheel mid-drive—it’s to pick the right option from the crate the team built. Yeah, they need instincts and feel, but it’s not solo genius. The booth, the film guys, the analysts—they’re all feeding into it live. The million-dollar chess match starts way before Sunday.

 

Its a very collaborative process.  Coaches are managers-  not genius artists who draw out plays mid game. The success is about how well they manage and lead.  

 

That's not minimizing a coach's role.. bit contextualizes what you should be evaluating. 

Im agree with everything your saying except this concept that the guy holding the playsheet that decides which of the 400 different combinations of said plays and formations has little to no bearing.

 

A somewhat competent play caller would have tosses out the damn toss play from our playbook at some point in the last 20 years. Maybe they would have not used these stupid pitty packages or playing 15 yards off the ball on 3rd and 10 over and over again. 

 

We are talking two different things here. Tactical and strategic level. 

 

Sure the strategic level of things has alot to do with it but if you handcuff the guy on the ground calling the actual shots to the overall plan you will not get the best results. 

 

Is the play caller so kinda master mind that can single handedly destroy another team by his boundless intelligence? No way in hell. But you can certainly have a better shot than asking madden for the play call. 

 

And if asking madden doesnt sound like what you are saying it is. The game picks a play depending on your game plan and the down and distance.