2024 General Election - Trump vs Kamala Harris

[Justafan]

10 hours ago, MadMax said:

But uncontrolled capitalism does.  Gotcha.

Better than any other economic system in human history, yes. Federal price control is communism my friend. It hasn't worked out well in the past. 

[Justafan]

9 hours ago, Starkiller said:

They absolutely do work in many instances. They just need to be used strategically rather than randomly or overwhelmingly. 

Obama's economic advisor has come out against price controls saying there's no upside and significant downside. 

 

Economic experts you can trust, not partisan talking heads will tell you that price controls on things like groceries leads to shortages, black markets, and corruptions and in many cases have actually raised prices significantly. Best case, you can ease prices temporarily but since it is artificial it's like holding pressure on a hose, you can't hold it forever and eventually it's going to bust and then you'll have an even bigger problem. 

 

Again, we tried this in the '70s, and it was a disaster.

 

And I still think it's better economics than Trump's stupid tariffs, which accomplish absolutely nothing but diminish relations with China and drive up prices for consumers and down-chain businesses.  

[Justafan]

8 hours ago, No1TitansFan said:

I know that every right wing outlet is talking about price controls by why are you assuming that's the policy she's talking about? Having the FTC investigate and hold companies accountable for price gouging is not impelmenting price controls; for the record the last president to do that was Gerald Ford.

She proposed a federal ban on price gouging... that can accurately be described as price controls. 

[Justafan]

Let me just also say that the taunting about crowd size is childish, petty, and insignificant to who will actually win the election in any way. Tens of Millions of people are going to vote for both of these candidates. Millions. 

[ctm]

7 minutes ago, Justafan said:

She proposed a federal ban on price gouging... that can accurately be described as price controls. 

There is a big difference in the government setting prices on products and keeping corporates from employing monopoly tactics.  They aren't the same.

 

The government won't be telling Kroger what to charge for bacon but they may tell Kroger they can't merge with Albertsons and control the marketplace.

[Justafan]

1 minute ago, ctm said:

There is a big difference in the government setting prices on products and keeping corporates from employing monopoly tactics.  They aren't the same.

 

The government won't be telling Kroger what to charge for bacon but they may tell Kroger they can't merge with Albertsons and control the marketplace.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kamala-harris-unveil-economic-policy-120738142.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKDzooJUbWN4Dkz6FPmJswH5YiVTKJir0A__-RG8LTa71EgyiErJyiUBmbQVg8KYSCN--SAcDrI0xQ-_7ZePLHvjJQjY0UmPHaHPMn3ISd17yPyIMjV6jA6m4mIDzV-Bk3TJB4tgEieN7uFMC4AuykEnmAYwn-YCHmLm2hmT302e

 

"The AP noted that Harris’ grocery pricing initiative would advise the Federal Trade Commission to discipline companies involved in price spikes and singles out a lack of competition in the meat-packing industry for raising the cost of meat."

[Justafan]

I guess I'm most disappointed in the fact that she had a chance to win a lot of moderates over with common sense policies. The focus is in the right place but the methods to achieve her desired effects are likely to make things worse not better. The 25,000 for new homebuyers sounds great until everyone buys a new house and prices go up again because demand is super high and here in  few years you are right back in the same prediciment only now there is even less affordable options for housing and you can't possibly buy your own home without government assistance. Similar to the situation we have with college now. These policies sound good but they actually make everything worse over time while driving up the deficit and making all of us poorer. 

 

I do like her idea to raise the child tax credit. I think that's good policy. 

 

Revamp SS so that poorer families get more help and high-income individuals don't get help they don't actually need.

 

Expand medicare to create a better social safety net. 

 

Federal Jobs programs

 

I'm all for that stuff. Stick to that Dems. 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2024 by Justafan

[ctm]

6 minutes ago, Justafan said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kamala-harris-unveil-economic-policy-120738142.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKDzooJUbWN4Dkz6FPmJswH5YiVTKJir0A__-RG8LTa71EgyiErJyiUBmbQVg8KYSCN--SAcDrI0xQ-_7ZePLHvjJQjY0UmPHaHPMn3ISd17yPyIMjV6jA6m4mIDzV-Bk3TJB4tgEieN7uFMC4AuykEnmAYwn-YCHmLm2hmT302e

 

"The AP noted that Harris’ grocery pricing initiative would advise the Federal Trade Commission to discipline companies involved in price spikes and singles out a lack of competition in the meat-packing industry for raising the cost of meat."

Key phrase....lack of competition. 

 

No where has she mentioned the government setting prices.  Nowhere.

[Justafan]

2 minutes ago, ctm said:

Key phrase....lack of competition. 

 

No where has she mentioned the government setting prices.  Nowhere.

Are you kidding? Read the quote again.

[ctm]

1 hour ago, Justafan said:

Obama's economic advisor has come out against price controls saying there's no upside and significant downside. 

 

Economic experts you can trust, not partisan talking heads will tell you that price controls on things like groceries leads to shortages, black markets, and corruptions and in many cases have actually raised prices significantly. Best case, you can ease prices temporarily but since it is artificial it's like holding pressure on a hose, you can't hold it forever and eventually it's going to bust and then you'll have an even bigger problem. 

 

Again, we tried this in the '70s, and it was a disaster.

 

And I still think it's better economics than Trump's stupid tariffs, which accomplish absolutely nothing but diminish relations with China and drive up prices for consumers and down-chain businesses.  

In the 1970's, Nixon froze all wages and prices.  When the freeze was lifted it was a disaster. That's one reason inflation was so high under Carter.

 

And btw, it's not surprising that a Republican president like Nixon would establish a disastrous policy and a Democrat would have to clean it up.

 

No where has she mentioned a wage price freeze.  This is a false analogy.

Edited August 17, 2024 by ctm

[Justafan]

1 minute ago, ctm said:

In the 1970's, Nixon froze all wages and prices.  When the freeze was lifted it was a disaster. That's one reason inflation was so high under Carter.

 

No where has she mentioned a wage price freeze.  This is a false analogy.

It's not as extreme, that's true, but it's a direct analogy to bad policy. 

[ctm]

1 minute ago, Justafan said:

It's not as extreme, that's true, but it's a direct analogy to bad policy. 

Nixon policy of wage price controls is irrelevant because that's not what she is talking about.

 

She's talking as about corporate anti competitive practices and price gouging.  Not the government setting prices on products or wage price controls.

[Justafan]

4 minutes ago, ctm said:

Nixon policy of wage price controls is irrelevant because that's not what she is talking about.

 

She's talking as about corporate anti competitive practices and price gouging.  Not the government setting prices on products or wage price controls.

I just posted the quote of her proposal to set federal price controls....

[ctm]

9 minutes ago, Justafan said:

I just posted the quote of her proposal to set federal price controls....

No where does it say the government will set the price of any product. 

 

And more importantly, no where has she said the government will set the price of any product.

Edited August 17, 2024 by ctm

[Mercalius]

@Justafan I’m here for you man.  You clearly see what’s in front of you.  No spin, no partisan skew - she said what she said.  And it’s not great, as you obviously know.  I know you’re not on “my side” in politics but maybe this is an eye opener on why people like me, who were once definitively in the middle, moved a little bit.  She hid for a month, then when finally felt compelled to speak on the policy that’s lead to where we are basically promoted the beginning stages of communism.  It’s fucking scary for anyone that’s read a history book.  

Edited August 17, 2024 by Mercalius