Harrison Butker is a huge idiot

[Guest]

In terms of pronouns and many of these other issues, I would love to see a side by side comparison of only the legal action. What has been proposed and what hasn't--who is making this a thing, and who isn't. 

 

Pronouns are also a great example of what I have described above. 

 

What is the big affliction, the big societal ask on conservatives to---call people what they want to be called? 

 

In the past, a transgender person would never make it into the kind of labor sphere (white collar work) where inclusive things like use of pronouns even exist. You absolutely had to be in the closet or you faced extreme reprisal and backlash---for your very existence. 

 

We've progressed enough where our society doesn't want to actively kill you for being transgender--progress! 

 

This mechanism forced transgender people to squelch their identity and be in the closet--you had to appear as a straight passing person. 

 

We aren't even close to there yet for conservatives. The grievance is that, not only do I have to allow you to exist, I have to someway acknowledge your existence on your terms. 

 

And thinking about it simply, I don't think some of these items are up for disagreement because the history is unambiguous. 

 

 

[Justafan]

15 minutes ago, IrishTitansFan said:

How can you ban pronouns? 

 

Seems pretty hard to enforce!

 

 

On forcing people to use them, as an example, a teacher shouldn't outright ignore a kids wishes IMO. If a kid legally had their name changed (as a result of a father leaving for example) and the teacher was harrasing them by calling them the old name, they would rightly be pulled up on it for being a dick. It's the same thing IMO, maybe not banning it, but harrassment for the sake of it is wrong

 

Not sure I really want to dive into this topic again with people. People are way too emotionally charged and I don't have a lot of confidence that we could engage in that conversation in good faith without ad hominem, labeling, and baiting becoming the central theme (not from you). If you want to take it to another thread maybe, IDK. 

[WG53]

4 hours ago, Justafan said:

Good post. For sure, boomers (and others) need to hop on the train or get run over by it. This isn't the 1950s, and we ain't going back. I think it's fair game to criticize and to have a voice, ESPECIALLY, when someone says something that is truly and intentionally disparaging. The problem here, in my personal opinion is that this went beyond that and what he said, while it might not sit well with some people, was not meant to be disparaging. 

 

You're probably right that some form of 'canceling' has always existed, but I'll push back on the idea that it's just a power dynamic in modern form. While it's true that factions have always been a thing and the power group has always used it's position to punish the outsiders, this is a more organized and deliberate use of that power IMO that is only available due to modern technology. Maybe that's splitting hairs, but I think it's a distinction that matters because the consequences are more severe.

 

I'll also say that conservative views aren't off the table. Some of them are for sure, but most of them aren't, and liberals seem to have this desire to just blanket all conservative views as not only undesirable but completely unacceptable. In the case of hatred and bigotry - which I would argue has a rich history among both ends of the political spectrum - of course, it's unacceptable, but with cases like abortion, trans genders in sports, promoting traditional families, and many of the values associated with, and even gay marriage they have a legitimate argument and a right to express that argument even if all of us disagree. This isn't closed-case ethics, and many on the left want to pretend that it is. The subversion of free speech is my biggest gripe. The answer to speech you disagree with is more speech. Better, more persuasive speech. 

So now that the shoe is on the other foot it isn't acceptable? Conservatives, for centuries,  have pushed their views and agendas on everyone and ostracized everyone that disagreed. It is still damn near impossible to hold office without paying lip service to their religious beliefs. Now that they can't force everyone to agree and listen to their bullshit they play the victim card and are crybabies about everything. 

 

You speak out against the left about this all the time...yet this is just the pendulum swinging the other direction finally and they can't handle their own medicine.

[Justafan]

1 hour ago, WG53 said:

So now that the shoe is on the other foot it isn't acceptable? Conservatives, for centuries,  have pushed their views and agendas on everyone and ostracized everyone that disagreed. It is still damn near impossible to hold office without paying lip service to their religious beliefs. Now that they can't force everyone to agree and listen to their bullshit they play the victim card and are crybabies about everything. 

 

You speak out against the left about this all the time...yet this is just the pendulum swinging the other direction finally and they can't handle their own medicine.

I don't see it the same way but I can appreciate that perspective. There are multiple schools of conservative thought. Only the ultra-religious from before our lifetimes really engaged in the type of intentional silencing that you allude to. Also, just because they did it doesn't make it okay now. 

[WG53]

2 hours ago, Justafan said:

I don't see it the same way but I can appreciate that perspective. There are multiple schools of conservative thought. Only the ultra-religious from before our lifetimes really engaged in the type of intentional silencing that you allude to. Also, just because they did it doesn't make it okay now. 

Have you spent time in the south? Seriously.  Only the ultra religious my ass. 

[Justafan]

6 hours ago, WG53 said:

Have you spent time in the south? Seriously.  Only the ultra religious my ass. 

I grew up just south of Nashville, but I haven't lived there in over 20 years. I've been trying to get to Campbell my whole career, but they keep sending me to dumps like Germany, Italy, NYC, and Chicago!

Edited May 21, 2024 by Justafan

[OILERMAN]

12 hours ago, IrishTitansFan said:

He's obviously one of those mind numbing dummies we all avoid in work, conspiracy theorist right-wing nutjobs, we all know them

 

He has a pic on his Instagram with the white trash couple in St Louis who were convicted pulling guns on BLM protestors back in 2020.

 

 

[Starkiller]

 

[IsntLifeFunny]

31 minutes ago, Starkiller said:

 

What a bitch slap to one in particular in this thread. They're bitching more than those bitching lol. 

[Number9]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:34 PM, nine said:

 

The only area where I take umbrage is that in my experience,  such deeply religious and deeply conservative Americans are passionate about defending and exercising this freedom for themselves....but are often equally passionate and vigorous in trying to deny the same freedom for those whose beliefs and values differ from their own.

The R chose the Southern Strategy.  Southern Churches taught slavery was right and the people of the South went to war against America, mr'ca.  When they got rid of the Jim Crow laws, people intermingled and saw they were teaching bs.  

 

The SS became the Moral Majority.  Bill Clinton-eww.  Even though their Evangelical Leadership does much worse, they used him to show 'bad man'.  The SS now MM kept getting stronger.  Now, they are attacking the United States Capital.

 

The Moral Majority worships Donald Trump.  

All they ask is let them impose their ideas of how the country should be run.

[luvyablue256]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:34 PM, nine said:

Personally, I don't have a problem with it.    He's obviously deeply religious and has deeply conservative values....which he has every right to talk about, especially when addressing a class at a faith-based institution.

 

Tens or hundreds of millions of Americans share similar values ....and that's fine.   That's the beauty of America:  we're all free to believe as we wish and live our lives as we choose.   it's one of the guiding principles upon which this great nation was founded and is woven throughout the fabric of our society.

 

The only area where I take umbrage is that in my experience,  such deeply religious and deeply conservative Americans are passionate about defending and exercising this freedom for themselves....but are often equally passionate and vigorous in trying to deny the same freedom for those whose beliefs and values differ from their own.

 

Exactly. They're not pro freedom, they're pro dominion. They want to dominate by forcing their way of life on everyone else. 

[Justafan]

5 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

What a bitch slap to one in particular in this thread. They're bitching more than those bitching lol. 

Not at all. I appreciate Jon's perspective, but he's only telling one side here. 

[IsntLifeFunny]

23 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Not at all. I appreciate Jon's perspective, but he's only telling one side here. 

I wasn't speaking of you amigo. You at least argue in good faith, which I appreciate. 

[Justafan]

16 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I wasn't speaking of you amigo. You at least argue in good faith, which I appreciate. 

Fair enough. I do think Jon raises some good points. I'm curious who you were alluding to. Earl?

[IsntLifeFunny]

Just now, Justafan said:

Fair enough. I do think Jon raises some good points. I'm curious who you were alluding to. Earl?

Bud. Even when I agree with him, he's ridiculously pompous about every single thing he discusses. 

 

No one who matters is outraged about Butker except the right wing who is getting their doom porn on for the left thinking it was poor form. That was shown fairly well by Stewart. Fox News has made this a headline...and they do that shit on purpose.