Democratic Nomination for 2020 - UPDATED to include those who have officially announced

[OILERMAN]

3 minutes ago, ctm said:

But, if Bernie is painted at one extreme and Joe as the other, that leaves a natural opening for an alternative in the middle.

If anyone overtakes Biden I'd guess it would be Warren. I've already stated I think she's the best candidate. 

 

That's different than Biden being possibly the most electable against Trump 

 

I'll vote for whoever the hell it is 

[ctm]

1 minute ago, OILERMAN said:

If anyone overtakes Biden I'd guess it would be Warren. I've already stated I think she's the best candidate. 

 

That's different than Biden being possibly the most electable against Trump 

 

I'll vote for whoever the hell it is 

I would also add that there is video of Warren facing off with Biden over the bankruptcy bill when it was before the senate.  So as you mention, her opposition from years ago is well know.

 

However, she isn't on the stage with Joe in the first debate.  Other candidates will do the attack on Joe, not her.  That's to her advantage, because any attack on another candidate risks driving up the attackers negatives.

[LongTimeFan]

4 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

 

I'll vote for whoever the hell it is 

But if someone has the same negative opinion about the left's candidate and vote for the Republican candidate they might not normally vote for,  they are immediately a retard in your mind. 

Right, Smegal?

[oldschool]

1 hour ago, OILERMAN said:

I doubt it. The stuff Sanders endorses is popular. Calling it "socialism" quit working like it used to. 

 

Hillary was attacked last time for being in the banks back pocket and voting for the Iraq war. Biden is the one who stands to lose in the debates for his past stances. 

This is not true at all. Sanders is bleeding supporters to Warren. He isn't the counter to a reviled candidate like Clinton this time.

[oldschool]

38 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

If anyone overtakes Biden I'd guess it would be Warren. I've already stated I think she's the best candidate. 

 

That's different than Biden being possibly the most electable against Trump 

 

I'll vote for whoever the hell it is 

History shows policy wonks don't win general elections. Just look at the 2000 and 2016 elections for proof if you need it. @Legaltitan is 100% correct that Warren is more suited for the Senate. I think Trump would love to face Warren or Sanders. He's scared of Biden for good reason. 

[Titans279]

Biden’s kowtowing to the corporate interests of his state (credit card companies in this instance) will probably hurt him just like Booker’s to Wall Street and big pharma will hurt him.

 

Looking like you bend over for these giant corporations to make life worse for the average Joe in America shouldn’t be the Democratic Party’s thing. 

 

Biden’s record wasn’t a good match for the Democratic Party in 2008 and it’s even worse of a match now. The only benefit he has is perceived electability. 

 

If people hit him on the issues I think he’s in real trouble. He’s going to try to keep the talk about Trump, but that’s hard to keep up for 7 or 8 months. 

[tgo]

1 hour ago, OILERMAN said:

Most people don't like the word and Warren is wise to keep calling herself a capitalist for sure. 

 

But when Bernie gets on the stage and starts talking about equality, healthcare for all, free college etc..... people are going to like it. 

Yeah I meant the terminology. 

 

But I dunno man, I think he comes across as angry and the whole class warfare thing comes across as divisive to many. 

 

Some will like it though. And yeah, healthcare for all, free college, etc is going to be appealing to many Democrats of course. 

 

But the alternative argument re Bernie’s healthcare plan is going to be people getting kicked off their employer plans they like and have to opt into a public option. A lot of people aren’t going to like that and it will give those arguing for being able to keep your plan if you like it a leg up in the eyes of moderates. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by tgo

[tgo]

22 minutes ago, Titans279 said:

Biden’s kowtowing to the corporate interests of his state (credit card companies in this instance) will probably hurt him just like Booker’s to Wall Street and big pharma will hurt him.

 

Looking like you bend over for these giant corporations to make life worse for the average Joe in America shouldn’t be the Democratic Party’s thing. 

 

Biden’s record wasn’t a good match for the Democratic Party in 2008 and it’s even worse of a match now. The only benefit he has is perceived electability. 

 

If people hit him on the issues I think he’s in real trouble. He’s going to try to keep the talk about Trump, but that’s hard to keep up for 7 or 8 months. 

Some people are actually still pro business in this country haha. Even some Democrats! 

 

Biden just got a lot of press for calling out Amazon the other day for not having to pay taxes, but he did it in a way that doesnt make it seem like he wants to break up the company and seize the means of production lol. 

 

And I don’t think Democrats need a lecture from Bernie Bros on what should or shouldn’t be the Democrats’ “thing.” The Party is a big tent - a fuck ton bigger than you probably think it is. 

 

Joe Biden isn’t going to come over as some corporate lackey, that’s ridiculous. I just read another book about him and there are tons of examples of him standing ip to corporate interests in Delaware. But is he a bat shit crazy anti business type? No, he’s clearly not, he’s

worked with business at times, which is one of his strengths. 

 

His central message is “it’s time to start rewarding work and not wealth” and raising minimum wage, etc. He Has overwhelming union support, etc.

 

The idea he’s a corporate lackey is pure nonsense. You guys are just towing the party line of the populist class warriors. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by tgo

[Titans279]

The obvious reply is I’m not a Bernie bro or communist.

 

You don’t have to be one to not like Biden’s or Booker’s history with bills that hurt people because they need to throw a bone to the big corporate interests in their state. 

[ChesterCopperpot1]

1 hour ago, OILERMAN said:

Biden’s support for the 2005 bankruptcy bill sets him apart from progressive Democrats running for president and other Democratic leaders in Congress. Independent then-Rep. Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Democratic Sens. Dianne Feinsten of California, Barack Obama of Illinois, and Chuck Schumer of New York all voted against the bill. Elizabeth Warren, not yet a senator, fought against the changes.

 

“The bill was a big, fat, wet kiss for credit card companies and auto lenders. It ensured that private student loans could not be discharged in bankruptcies,” Levitin said. “It also exacerbated risky mortgage lending.”

 

New York Federal Reserve researchers later said that the bankruptcy bill could have been a contributing factor in destabilization that led to the subprime mortgage crisis. Analysts have said that the bill made private student loans a lucrative business and linked the bil l to the rise in retail businesses filing for bankruptcy.

 

“Biden’s got some explaining to do, I think, to the Democratic electorate,” said Levitin, the Georgetown University law professor. “I don’t think millennials in particular have kind of pieced together that Biden’s involved with their student loan debt.”

A bill in 2005 did not play any part in the mortgage crisis. It had already started in 2005. Sheesh. What an irresponsible thing to say. 

[Starkiller]

19 minutes ago, ChesterCopperpot1 said:

A bill in 2005 did not play any part in the mortgage crisis. It had already started in 2005. Sheesh. What an irresponsible thing to say. 

Of course it did. It affected people being able to declare bankruptcy in the face of their home loan going to hell. 

[OILERMAN]

2 hours ago, oldschool said:

This is not true at all. Sanders is bleeding supporters to Warren. He isn't the counter to a reviled candidate like Clinton this time.

The debate was how they would handle the debates, nothing else

[tgo]

5 hours ago, Starkiller said:

Of course it did. It affected people being able to declare bankruptcy in the face of their home loan going to hell. 

Biden was on the right side of this at the time imo. It shouldn’t be super easy for people to declare bankruptcy. 

[Starkiller]

28 minutes ago, tgo said:

Biden was on the right side of this at the time imo. It shouldn’t be super easy for people to declare bankruptcy. 

History has proven Biden to be wrong

[OILERMAN]

45 minutes ago, tgo said:

Biden was on the right side of this at the time imo. It shouldn’t be super easy for people to declare bankruptcy. 

Unless it's the banks getting bailouts after giving out bad loans

 

And if that's true he should stand behind his bills