Mythos27 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 5 minutes ago, Callidus said: Id think you may be onto something if it wasn't for the sausage fest dance party. Definitely wasn't sausage shy. IDK, after watching the Ricky Williams documentary and seeing what life in the spotlight did to someone that struggled with mental health, I look at athletes differently than I used to. We expect them to be mature men because we hand them millions of dollars to play a kid's game but a lot of them are either children with beards or young men carrying horribly trauma/mental issues. That's more don't end up like VY is actually pretty impressive. None of this is an excuse per se but it speaks to how important it is for front offices to vet these guys beyond their talent. We know for a fact that this didn't happen with VY because Bud was taking him regardless. It was always going to be a train-wreck. IsntLifeFunny, and Callidus 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 4 minutes ago, scine09 said: I thought Mariota might possibly have one but never thought it about Young although it's entirely possible he does. With Mariota I think he had a touch of the tism. Would explain a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 20 minutes ago, Callidus said: Id think you may be onto something if it wasn't for the sausage fest dance party. booze does help with anxiety. Callidus 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scine09 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: With Mariota I think he had a touch of the tism. Would explain a lot. I think he just doesn't feel comfortable in social settings. Which is interesting for his profession. Edited August 10 by scine09 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 22 hours ago, Callidus said: Once this thread dies how long before you guys think this convo comes up again? Feels like every couple years we have to have this same thread over again. It's probably going to live a bit longer than the typical thread considering the docu coming out. I have a feeling there will be a few info bombs thrown out there just to get people talking. Callidus 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 26 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: Mariota's college stats and to a certain extent his tape were so good that despite me being one of the people most vocal about not wanting to draft him, I struggled to make arguments against him based on the actual film. Best I could do was question how easy the reads were in the Oregon offense, point out how few tight window throws he hit in college, and challenge whether his processing ability would translate to the NFL. I turned out to be right but it was all based on protecting him to the NFL which admittedly is very hard to get right consistently. He was a pretty damn good prospect looking back on it. I still think being drafted by Webster onto a Ken Whisenhunt/Mike Mularkey run team was the pre-emptive death of his time as a starter. Maybe he lacked a killer instinct (or maybe what fight he had was beaten/coached out of him) but in the right system with the right coach I think he would had more success as a starter. Thankfully the QB we have now is system agnostic. He's already been through many different systems, from a wing-T to an Air Coryell-esque system. And he attacks it all with a "you will bend to my will" mentality. begooode, and titanruss 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 20 minutes ago, scine09 said: I think he just doesn't feel comfortable in social settings. Which is interesting for his profession. He actually seems to do just fine in scripted situations like interviews, meet and greets, etc. People all over the spectrum can present pretty differently. Obviously I have no idea if he is out isn't in just throwing it out there as a what if. Sometimes we miss clear signs because we write them off as mere quirks or eccentricities. When Ricky did that interview in his helmet people thought he was just being funny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 (edited) 21 minutes ago, NashvilleNinja said: I still think being drafted by Webster onto a Ken Whisenhunt/Mike Mularkey run team was the pre-emptive death of his time as a starter. Maybe he lacked a killer instinct (or maybe what fight he had was beaten/coached out of him) but in the right system with the right coach I think he would had more success as a starter. Thankfully the QB we have now is system agnostic. He's already been through many different systems, from a wing-T to an Air Coryell-esque system. And he attacks it all with a "you will bend to my will" mentality. I think with him he was ok until the league figured him out. Once they saw he was hesitant to attack deep/tight windows they started taking away anything short. It didn't help that we had ass at WR and the line was terrible his first couple of years. Then the injury happened and I believe he lost arm talent which in turn made him even less confident to attempt those tougher throws. He also seemed more afraid of contact. It was issues on top of issues until he just wasn't viable. Edited August 10 by Mythos27 NashvilleNinja, begooode, and IsntLifeFunny 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 18 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: I think with him he was ok until the league figured him out. Once they saw he was hesitant to attack deep/tight windows they started taking away anything short. It didn't help that we had ass at WR and the line was terrible his first couple of years. Then the injury happened and I believe he lost arm talent which in turn made him even less confident to attempt those tougher throws. He also seemed more afraid of contact. It was issues on top of issues until he just wasn't viable. The injury took a bit off his already mediocre fastball for sure. When he refused to play that win and in game against the Colts he was done as a starting QB. I give him credit for hanging on around the league, and he does so because as a backup he presents some issues for a defense because of short accuracy and speed, and he seems like a good/great teammate. He'll always be a pansy in my book though for not playing in that game. If that were Cam or Steve they'd of had to tie them to a gurney to not be on the field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 18 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: I think with him he was ok until the league figured him out. Once they saw he was hesitant to attack deep/tight windows they started taking away anything short. It didn't help that we had ass at WR and the line was terrible his first couple of years. Then the injury happened and I believe he lost arm talent which in turn made him even less confident to attempt those tougher throws. He also seemed more afraid of contact. It was issues on top of issues until he just wasn't viable. The league figuring him out could have been mitigated, at least somewhat, with a better coaching/system fit, but the injury stuff, general lack of confidence, and fear of contact may have done him in anyway. The OL being shit is a familiar refrain with us. Mariota didn't help with his growing fear of contact and refusal to keep his eyes downfield, but what came first between Mariota lacking confidence or the OL being shit? At a certain point it just didn't matter anymore. The negative flywheel affect took hold and that was that. It was only going to end how it ended. Mythos27 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, IsntLifeFunny said: The injury took a bit off his already mediocre fastball for sure. When he refused to play that win and in game against the Colts he was done as a starting QB. I give him credit for hanging on around the league, and he does so because as a backup he presents some issues for a defense because of short accuracy and speed, and he seems like a good/great teammate. He'll always be a pansy in my book though for not playing in that game. If that were Cam or Steve they'd of had to tie them to a gurney to not be on the field. Honestly, I'll never fault a player for not putting his entire career on the line if he doesn't think he's healthy. We've seen teams completely ruin people's careers by fucking them over medically. If I know something is seriously wrong with my body, I'm not going to take the word of a team doctor over the second opinion of a private doctor. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of a player that would go out there anyways but I recognize that for him that's a stupid decision. At the end of the day, this is a business and the players don't owe us shit. Teams throw their asses out like dogs once they're no longer useful and most fans forget they ever existed unless they go on to become an all time great. Loyalty in the NFL is for suckers. titanruss, and begooode 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, NashvilleNinja said: The league figuring him out could have been mitigated, at least somewhat, with a better coaching/system fit, but the injury stuff, general lack of confidence, and fear of contact may have done him in anyway. The OL being shit is a familiar refrain with us. Mariota didn't help with his growing fear of contact and refusal to keep his eyes downfield, but what came first between Mariota lacking confidence or the OL being shit? At a certain point it just didn't matter anymore. The negative flywheel affect took hold and that was that. It was only going to end how it ended. The OL being shit came first. If you'll remember Mariota wasn't actually able to finish his rookie season and neither did Mett before him. Mariota missed the last 4 games with a knee injury. That said he still managed to look good enough that most of us were hopeful; even those of us that didn't want to draft him initially. Once the arm injury hit and he never got the zip back it was over and all of the other issues magnified. As least that's how I remember it. Others assert that they knew he was absolute shit from the very beginning. Those people can back up their assertions with posts of them saying that at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 23 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: Honestly, I'll never fault a player for not putting his entire career on the line if he doesn't think he's healthy. We've seen teams completely ruin people's careers by fucking them over medically. If I know something is seriously wrong with my body, I'm not going to take the word of a team doctor over the second opinion of a private doctor. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of a player that would go out there anyways but I recognize that for him that's a stupid decision. At the end of the day, this is a business and the players don't owe us shit. Teams throw their asses out like dogs once they're no longer useful and most fans forget they ever existed unless they go on to become an all time great. Loyalty in the NFL is for suckers. I'm okay with that. It also became the moment he was never getting re-signed to a monster contract. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 8 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said: I'm okay with that. It also became the moment he was never getting re-signed to a monster contract. And thank God we didn't. Could you imagine? IsntLifeFunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 13 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: And thank God we didn't. Could you imagine? It's been a rough stretch, but I think we hit the jackpot with Cam. The highlights are getting better, but more than anything it's that he's making it look easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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