Justafan Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, oldschool said: On the surface I agree with your point. Americans even poor ones dont know what true poverty is. Go to Africa or South America and see how the populace lives. That being said there are way more hurdles to lifting yourself up by your bootstraps in America than you are willing to admit. I've acknowledged there are challenges with every post, but point taken. I have no issue with someone saying that there are hurdles when balanced with a statement such as yours that Americans don't really know what true poverty is. That's a nuanced take, and while we may not agree 100%, we're close enough that I take no issue, and I'm not going to argue just to argue. What I have an issue with is the crybaby attitudes and ridiculous accusations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctm Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 23 hours ago, Justafan said: Bullshit. The comparison isn’t King I. 1400 vs King in 2026. My sister once lived in a trailer and now she owns a trailer park as well as 4 other businesses worth millions. It’s a complete and utter waste to debate in this venue but I couldn’t disagree more with anyone’s notions that they can’t turn around their fortunes in 2026 America. There is an obvious formula.....show up, work hard, live below your means, reject materialism, save and invest. Some can do it, many can't for whatever reason. But yes, the opportunity is there. I would also add that it benefits society in general if government makes it easier for the average person to follow that formula. Justafan, and OILERMAN 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callidus Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 The problem is there is a big limiting factor of quality jobs. Sure, it works just fine for the people who get it with a bunch of fuckups to balance things out. But it would never work for everyone. At some point you end up with millions and millions of overqualified people stuck working for minimum wage here or there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 26 minutes ago, ctm said: There is an obvious formula.....show up, work hard, live below your means, reject materialism, save and invest. Some can do it, many can't for whatever reason. But yes, the opportunity is there. I would also add that it benefits society in general if government makes it easier for the average person to follow that formula. The one caveat I would add to this is that often, certainly not always, the best thing the government can do is get out of the way. Certainly not advocating for Reaganism, but there is a segment of society that sees government as the answer to their problems, and as someone who has worked for the government and around government employees most of my adult life, I can tell you that the government, while best suited for some things, is not saving us. We have to roll up our sleeves and do that ourselves. That has always been the solution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 Also, I would suggest that this has strayed far away from the original topic and dangerously drifted towards politics. It's been interesting, but I think I'm going to exit the conversation now before I get sucked into another debate I'd rather not have. ctm, NashvilleNinja, and prometheus 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted May 24 Author Report Share Posted May 24 22 hours ago, Justafan said: Also, I would suggest that this has strayed far away from the original topic and dangerously drifted towards politics. It's been interesting, but I think I'm going to exit the conversation now before I get sucked into another debate I'd rather not have. It's only slightly more tolerable this time of year when there's not much of anything going on football related. Free agency and the draft are tiny dots in the rearview and mini camp is still a couple weks away. And then there's nothing but tumbleweeds for nearly 2 months. Still, I'd rather have the thousandth conversation about the greatest QB of all time. Justafan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Maybe he spent too much money on dog food: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAEA12 Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 On 5/19/2026 at 6:53 AM, Justafan said: We don't teach simple finance in school, and we have a culture that worships materialism over values or patience. Combine that with a lot of these guys coming from rough upbringings, and it's a sad but predictable outcome. It's not difficult at all to get or stay wealthy (depending on your definition) in America. Even the poor here are among the top 1% of all people in human history. It is extremely difficult to get to place where you can spend thoughtlessly indefinitely while surrounded by morons who are only there to enjoy it while it lasts. It's obvious that all the shenanigans wall street elite do to fenagle money out of thin air is dependent on schlubs not joining the party and punching a time clock and scraping by with no savings desperate for each weeks paycheck. Finance would not be getting taught in schools ,and if it did it'd be the most basic save for retirement bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 6 minutes ago, XAEA12 said: It's obvious that all the shenanigans wall street elite do to fenagle money out of thin air is dependent on schlubs not joining the party and punching a time clock and scraping by with no savings desperate for each weeks paycheck. Finance would not be getting taught in schools ,and if it did it'd be the most basic save for retirement bullshit. I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here? Are you trying to insenuate that all GDP is generated from hourly workers? What shenanigans exactly are you referring to? What is bullshit about teaching people to save for retirement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callidus Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 8 hours ago, Justafan said: I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here? Are you trying to insenuate that all GDP is generated from hourly workers? What shenanigans exactly are you referring to? What is bullshit about teaching people to save for retirement? I dont think he was trying to say all gdp is from "hourly" workers or real work in general. While I am not positive I believe he was pointing a finger at the bullshit that is the casino a good chunk of the finance sector has become. AI is the most obvious example atm. Money that isn't there is being pumped into companies activly burning money leading to adjacent companies (PC hardware) going through the roof. Who then feed money back into the same bullshit loop. All in the hope the tech ever becomes viable which for most applications was always a long shot even before it started down a death spiral of learning from its own garbage. Bit coin and the like would be the other obvious example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 3 hours ago, Callidus said: I dont think he was trying to say all gdp is from "hourly" workers or real work in general. While I am not positive I believe he was pointing a finger at the bullshit that is the casino a good chunk of the finance sector has become. AI is the most obvious example atm. Money that isn't there is being pumped into companies activly burning money leading to adjacent companies (PC hardware) going through the roof. Who then feed money back into the same bullshit loop. All in the hope the tech ever becomes viable which for most applications was always a long shot even before it started down a death spiral of learning from its own garbage. Bit coin and the like would be the other obvious example. Okay, sure, but I would also point out that Wall Street has been responsible for the majority of wealth generated in America. A majority of modern millionaires got there by a combination of paying off a home and saving in a retirement account using stocks and mutual funds as the primary vehicle for their wealth generation. ctm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 There are two issues...... The American economic system is completely unfair and set up for the rich and corporate interest. They are socialist government welfare bums who get bailouts and subsidies all the time. Auto, Banking bailouts, quantitative easing from the Fed, John Boehnor on the House floor bawling that we have to bail out wall street. They get unfunded tax breaks that run up the deficit while they claim we're too broke to fund any entitlement for working people. They scream capitalism while begging for government help. The problem is there isn't anything you as an individual can do about it. All you can do is improve your own situation. Work more, earn more, pay off debt, invest and try to get financial freedom. It's still doable. Excuses and crying about it gets you nowhere. Pointing out the inequities while improving your own situation is the path. titanruss, IsntLifeFunny, Callidus, and 1 other 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callidus Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 3 hours ago, Justafan said: Okay, sure, but I would also point out that Wall Street has been responsible for the majority of wealth generated in America. A majority of modern millionaires got there by a combination of paying off a home and saving in a retirement account using stocks and mutual funds as the primary vehicle for their wealth generation. Ofc the system that pulls money out of thin air creates tons of money. I have no problem with the stock market in principle, but its also a glorified ponzi scheme in some respects. japan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 The lack of self awareness is off the charts Callidus, Supernope, and TF_Titan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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