Around the NFL Week 11 Discussion

[IsntLifeFunny]

1 hour ago, oldschool said:

@IsntLifeFunny crazy stuff

 

 

I understand @Mythos27 point about the roster being bottom of the barrel - I really do - but no one can tell me coaching hasn't hindered this team. The best offenses run a ton of motion and PA. We do neither. I guarantee you the diagram wouldn't change even if you made the data reflect only the first half (before we start getting blown out). 

[CreepingDeath]

48 minutes ago, OILERMAN said:

 

Do you think Love is playing as well as Tannehill was?

I've only watched portions of Packers games.  

I know Tannehill was a cog in that brief window of Titans success.  He was limited in the first playoff run and completely exposed in the rest.  

 

Are you saying LaFluer is covering up for Love and the first down run rate is intentional?  Are you saying that LaFluer is increasing his odds of success by running the ball at a higher rate on early downs?

[OzTitan]

One of the arguments originally used against the idea that Tannehill needed such a run heavy 1st down rate otherwise he'd get exposed was how silly it is to suggest a QB who needs help is somehow helped by being in 2nd and 3rd down pass only situations that inevitably comes as a result of such a heavy 1st down run rate.

 

So I can't see how the same doesn't apply to Love. If the idea is he is struggling, then how is this helping? If this is MLF's solution then he is committing the same violations.

[DecepticonShawn2]

 

[NashvilleNinja]

2 hours ago, oldschool said:

@IsntLifeFunny crazy stuff

 

 

 

Eagles trying to hide Jalen Hurts?

[NashvilleNinja]

5 minutes ago, DecepticonShawn2 said:

 

 

The gayest motherfuckers.

[Callidus]

1 hour ago, CreepingDeath said:

I've only watched portions of Packers games.  

I know Tannehill was a cog in that brief window of Titans success.  He was limited in the first playoff run and completely exposed in the rest.  

 

Are you saying LaFluer is covering up for Love and the first down run rate is intentional?  Are you saying that LaFluer is increasing his odds of success by running the ball at a higher rate on early downs?

Tanny gets a bad wrap in the playoffs for what really was out of his control.

 

The first year where he only threw like 7 passes per game he gets ignored as not doing much. When he torched both teams and gave us the lead to lean on henry. 

 

In the Cincinnati game one pick was on the wr. And the last pick the bengals said they knew what the play was.

 

Was he lights out and carrying the team? Not by any means. His play wasn't a detriment to them winning either. 

[CreepingDeath]

1 hour ago, OzTitan said:

One of the arguments originally used against the idea that Tannehill needed such a run heavy 1st down rate otherwise he'd get exposed was how silly it is to suggest a QB who needs help is somehow helped by being in 2nd and 3rd down pass only situations that inevitably comes as a result of such a heavy 1st down run rate.

 

So I can't see how the same doesn't apply to Love. If the idea is he is struggling, then how is this helping? If this is MLF's solution then he is committing the same violations.

I'm not a coach, but I'm assuming the idea is that by running at a high rate on 1st and 2nd downs, the coach is attempting the following:

 - stay "ahead of the sticks" or whatever that saying is.  Basically get 3-4 yards at the minimum.

 - the coach doesn't trust the passing game (QB being the key component).  A handoff is pretty straightforward.  In a pass, running the correct routes (and making adjustments - hot routes, etc) stack on top of the QB's intelligence to read the defense and then throw the ball accurately and with the right amount of touch.

 

Earlier in the game, fucking up early with incompletions leading to 3-and-outs puts the whole team in the hole.  The defense wears themselves out.  

Vrabel always wanted to limit the number of possessions the other team had.  He wanted to use up clock.  

 

With Tannehill, Henry, Brown, Davis, a healthy OL, and A. Smith dialing up the plays, the offense was rocking.  

--

 

So, perhaps LeFleur doesn't trust his offense in its current state.  He wants to limit possessions and limit potential mistakes.  Didn't they just lose their best receiver (the TE)?  

[OzTitan]

3 minutes ago, CreepingDeath said:

I'm not a coach, but I'm assuming the idea is that by running at a high rate on 1st and 2nd downs, the coach is attempting the following:

 - stay "ahead of the sticks" or whatever that saying is.  Basically get 3-4 yards at the minimum.

 - the coach doesn't trust the passing game (QB being the key component).  A handoff is pretty straightforward.  In a pass, running the correct routes (and making adjustments - hot routes, etc) stack on top of the QB's intelligence to read the defense and then throw the ball accurately and with the right amount of touch.

 

Earlier in the game, fucking up early with incompletions leading to 3-and-outs puts the whole team in the hole.  The defense wears themselves out.  

Vrabel always wanted to limit the number of possessions the other team had.  He wanted to use up clock.  

 

With Tannehill, Henry, Brown, Davis, a healthy OL, and A. Smith dialing up the plays, the offense was rocking.  

--

 

So, perhaps LeFleur doesn't trust his offense in its current state.  He wants to limit possessions and limit potential mistakes.  Didn't they just lose their best receiver (the TE)?  

Their two best targets are out (Reed since week 1, Kraft since recently) and basically everyone was banged up a little in their WR room. Their WR/CB hybrid who was meant to be mostly a CB was sent back to be a WR this past game and got like 5 targets I think (Melton).

 

I can see the idea but ultimately in most games you're likely going to have to pass. Avoiding it tends to make it harder when you do have to do it. Like, in this past Eagles game, the Packers first started showing life on offense when they were forced to pass up against the clock before half. It ended in that Love fumble, but that could happen on a run play, too.

 

Assuming the metrics in the tweet I posted on the 1st page are true, they average twice as many yards per play passing on 1st down than running. Not surprising of course, every offense probably does, but it does question why they are steadfast on this approach. What's weird is in Love's first season starting in 2023 he was given much more free reign, and now it's like since Malik Willis went in a few games, MLF has decided that's the offense he wants.

[Nash]

I’ve always assumed that LeFleur ‘s offense featured inside zone runs, mostly shotgun, lots of motion, and where the pass play goes is predetermined by the defensive alignment.  The play has a predetermined receiver, further limiting the QB adjustments.. 

[Mythos27]

3 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

I understand @Mythos27 point about the roster being bottom of the barrel - I really do - but no one can tell me coaching hasn't hindered this team. The best offenses run a ton of motion and PA. We do neither. I guarantee you the diagram wouldn't change even if you made the data reflect only the first half (before we start getting blown out). 

Coaching has hindered this team in the same way that being missing a shoe hinders a guy with two broken legs from running fast. 

[Callidus]

25 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Coaching has hindered this team in the same way that being missing a shoe hinders a guy with two broken legs from running fast. 

Both of us swinging for the fences with these analogies 

[IsntLifeFunny]

59 minutes ago, Mythos27 said:

Coaching has hindered this team in the same way that being missing a shoe hinders a guy with two broken legs from running fast. 

Yet from the chart they're dead last in both motion and play action. I guess the team is so bad that doing things to make it easier on the offense is pointless. 

[Callidus]

28 minutes ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Yet from the chart they're dead last in both motion and play action. I guess the team is so bad that doing things to make it easier on the offense is pointless. 

This isn't me defending anything but my best guess for the low usage of both can be explained. 

 

With how slow they were getting plays in the first 4-6 weeks, they didnt have time to use much motion. 

 

As for play action, they use a ton of shotgun, and i can see why that would lead to less play action. Its alot less effective if you dont have quick passes to take advange of the small window a play action out of shotgun gives you. 

 

Again, not defending them, just pointing out what I think the reasoning for those two being of such low usage. 

 

Getting to the line in time to use motion is obviously an easy fix as long as you dont have a complete moron taking to long to call plays or equally dumb qb relaying the play. Ward isn't dumb and once they changed play callers this time excuse was fixed. 

 

As for the playaction, either play more under center so you have the longer reaction time sink from the more drawn out playaction that entails, or just add some fucking slant/drag routes to the offense. 

Edited November 13, 2025 by Callidus

[Mythos27]

8 hours ago, IsntLifeFunny said:

Yet from the chart they're dead last in both motion and play action. I guess the team is so bad that doing things to make it easier on the offense is pointless. 

I wouldn't go as far as calling it pointless, I just question how much it would really matter with the execution issues that still plague us. The whole thing seems completely out of sorts. The receivers have started to catch the ball more consistently and that's great but the OL continues to be an anchor and the running game waffles between inconsistent and lackluster. I feel like the we could do all of the optimal things from a coaching perspective and if it resulted in like 3 more points per game I'd be surprised. Maybe I'm wrong but frankly, most of the bums on both the coaching and player side will be gone in like 5 months so I don't really feel it's worth my time to sus out the nuances. The people I look forward to discussing are not on the team yet.