IowaOiler Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 20 minutes ago, Bcap88 said: Thinking Bowen is the problem is definitely a choice his defense in the playoffs were hardly the downfall. 19 points allowed against Cincinnati 20 points allowed against Baltimore and if you want to consider the jaguars last game of the season a playoff game then you have 20 points allowed For an average of 19.6 ppg if your team can’t score 20 points in a playoff game that says more about your offense than your defense So we are crediting Bowen for the seasons he had Schwartz baby-sitting, and writing off the years he wasn't baby-sat as a lack of talent? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 13 hours ago, IowaOiler said: What I'm blaming on Bowen is his failure to get anything close from a very similar defense to what Pees won 2 playoff games with. When he didn't, the front office shifted it's focus from scoring, to making Bowen seem capable...from adding talent to adding a baby-sitter. Agree a 100%. There’s some serious revisionist history going on with Bowen here. For all the talk of how handicapped he was with no pass rush the year before Pees had Kamalei Correa, DQ Jones, and a late season Derrick Roberson to work with. His best rushers were Landry who was 2 years away from breaking out & a worn down Casey who they cut after the season. They had a totally shot Tramaine Brock pickup late season who Pees got very good play out of & guys like Kenny Vaccaro, Logan Ryan who barely had anything left, and Rashaan Evans. Adoree was good & Byard was their only very good player. They lost Malcolm Butler in the 3rd game. Simmons was 8 mths removed from an ACL & a rookie. They gave up 331 points. The next year they have Simmons another offseason removed from the ACL. Butler back. Jadaveon Clowney for I believe 10 games. Traded for Desmond King. Adoree was out for the season. They give up 439 points & Im pretty sure well into the season were literally the worst 3rd down defense in history. They gave up 3rd & longs at a rate that was just stunning. And I mean some REAL long 3rd downs. So yeah, I’m not exactly blown away by Bowen’s 2023 after 2 years with Schwartz. Great, he had a below average defense that wasn’t terrible this year. I also love all the talk about how bad the talent on defense was when everybody thought the unit was stacked before the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakingeek Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 1 hour ago, Doogie said: Fwiw OH NO! Not him! Wait… who the fuck is that guy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 The defense wasn't below average this year..... But 2020 had zero pass rushers and awful CB/S play. It's why they were so awful on 3rd down. As awful as they were in that category, they actually were only 24th in PA. Not a Bowen apologist but you guys are acting like he's Jerry Gray or Chuck Cecil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanskick8851 Posted January 31, 2024 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 8 minutes ago, BudsOilers said: The defense wasn't below average this year..... But 2020 had zero pass rushers and awful CB/S play. It's why they were so awful on 3rd down. As awful as they were in that category, they actually were only 24th in PA. Not a Bowen apologist but you guys are acting like he's Jerry Gray or Chuck Cecil. The one thing the defense struggled mightily beyond penalties on 3rd downs was forcing turnovers. They only forced 14 turnovers all year and that was after “focusing” on the issue all off season and in training camp. They will need to improve that if they want to become a better defense. Maybe they can do that by targeting different kinds of CBs, S, and LB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callidus Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 15 hours ago, titanskick8851 said: Love that he is not shying away from interviewing young and upcoming coaches. A lot of the younger Offensive HC's usually go with older DCs. Also seems to be leaning heavily on secondary coaches Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanskick8851 Posted January 31, 2024 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 Just now, Callidus said: Also seems to be leaning heavily on secondary coaches Instead of stop the run and run the ball Vrabel era we are in an era of stop the pass and complete the pass! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishTitansFan Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 33 minutes ago, Face said: Agree a 100%. There’s some serious revisionist history going on with Bowen here. For all the talk of how handicapped he was with no pass rush the year before Pees had Kamalei Correa, DQ Jones, and a late season Derrick Roberson to work with. His best rushers were Landry who was 2 years away from breaking out & a worn down Casey who they cut after the season. They had a totally shot Tramaine Brock pickup late season who Pees got very good play out of & guys like Kenny Vaccaro, Logan Ryan who barely had anything left, and Rashaan Evans. Adoree was good & Byard was their only very good player. They lost Malcolm Butler in the 3rd game. Simmons was 8 mths removed from an ACL & a rookie. They gave up 331 points. The next year they have Simmons another offseason removed from the ACL. Butler back. Jadaveon Clowney for I believe 10 games. Traded for Desmond King. Adoree was out for the season. They give up 439 points & Im pretty sure well into the season were literally the worst 3rd down defense in history. They gave up 3rd & longs at a rate that was just stunning. And I mean some REAL long 3rd downs. So yeah, I’m not exactly blown away by Bowen’s 2023 after 2 years with Schwartz. Great, he had a below average defense that wasn’t terrible this year. I also love all the talk about how bad the talent on defense was when everybody thought the unit was stacked before the season. So the Titans defense that you just wrote a short novel about in 2019 averaged slightly less PPG allowed than the below average 2023 defense? Strange argument given the points is how you are judging defenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudsOilers Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 We'll see how it shakes out. I do think there's some level of risk if we end up with a first time play caller HC, OC, and DC/play caller that gets a bit underplayed here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callidus Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 31 minutes ago, IowaOiler said: So we are crediting Bowen for the seasons he had Schwartz baby-sitting, and writing off the years he wasn't baby-sat as a lack of talent? The defense was perfectly respectable this year with holes all over the place. You can bitch and moan about it all you want but we were still middle of the pack with random scrubs playing 1/4 of the season. The giving up big 3rd downs is annoying but for a team with no offense to hold teams to around 20ppg with guys who won't be in the NFL next year all over the defense is fairly impressive. That said do I want him back? I wouldn't cry about it but it isn't my first choice either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrill Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 1 hour ago, Bcap88 said: Thinking Bowen is the problem is definitely a choice his defense in the playoffs were hardly the downfall. 19 points allowed against Cincinnati 20 points allowed against Baltimore and if you want to consider the jaguars last game of the season a playoff game then you have 20 points allowed For an average of 19.6 ppg if your team can’t score 20 points in a playoff game that says more about your offense than your defense I said it all year that the defense was fine and the problem the last two years is that Vrabel can’t score 20 points in a game to save his life. Expecting a modern nfl defense to hold teams under 20 and then lambasting them for giving up 24 is insanity. And Vrabel did that nearly every week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepingTitan Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 Bowen can go be Vrabel's gardener for all I care. I have no way of knowing if he really had any latitude. I do know that he didn't scheme against player weakness, and the defense actually looked BETTER without Simmons. I kinda feel like it looked better cause Bowen was allowed to innovate on those games (missing several pieces like Tart, Simmons, Fulton), but who knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkiller Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 Bowen isn’t a bad DC, so if BC can’t hire someone better then it’s a reasonable option to just keep him. But if they can get an up and comer like Dennard Wilson, absolutely kick him to the curb for a new guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaOiler Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 1 hour ago, IrishTitansFan said: So the Titans defense that you just wrote a short novel about in 2019 averaged slightly less PPG allowed than the below average 2023 defense? Strange argument given the points is how you are judging defenses Did you read the part about the 2019 defense, because he was pointing out how it was less talented than anything Bowen has had outside of maybe this last year. Yet, Pees did give up fewer PPG and we ultimately won two playoff games. If Bowen's defense is that he got only a slightly worse product out of more talent and a baby-sitter until 2023, that's a pretty weak argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted January 31, 2024 Report Share Posted January 31, 2024 We need to hire a staff sometime soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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