Mythos27 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, oldschool said: a small subset of people who are over the threshold anyway.... This is really not a big deal and if its gets the bill passed, its worth it. the thresholds have always been the line in the sand, not the phase outs. the vast majority of people who need the money will get it, those making under 75K or 150K jointly. When it comes to dollars and cents I agree that it isn't really a big deal. What I do see as a problem is that we all know Republicans will not be intellectually honest about this and will tout this as a broken promise beatstick that they can make noise with going into mid-terms. That said, republicans will distort anything they can get their hands on to try to score political point so on the balance if this is what it takes so be it. I will say though, the fact that it's taking this much effort to pass something so overwhelmingly popular, it bodes poorly for the future of any agenda that aims for progress. oldschool, IsntLifeFunny, and pat 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mythos27 said: When it comes to dollars and cents I agree that it isn't really a big deal. What I do see as a problem is that we all know Republicans will not be intellectually honest about this and will tout this as a broken promise beatstick that they can make noise with going into mid-terms. That said, republicans will distort anything they can get their hands on to try to score political point so on the balance if this is what it takes so be it. I will say though, the fact that it's taking this much effort to pass something so overwhelmingly popular, it bodes poorly for the future of any agenda that aims for progress. Spot on. The dems need to do a better job explaining what the 50/50 senate actually means. if progressives truly understood the stakes they would be out in North Carolina, Maine, Iowa, etc.... explaining why voters should vote for Democrats. Instead they are focused on trying to primary Sinema and Manchin which is beyond moronic. tgo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, oldschool said: Spot on. The dems need to do a better job explaining what the 50/50 senate actually means. if progressives truly understood the stakes they would be out in North Carolina, Maine, Iowa, etc.... explaining why voters should vote for Democrats. Instead they are focused on trying to primary Sinema and Manchin which is beyond moronic. The bigger problem is that anything more complex than a single factor explanation is too much for a lot of voters to digest and then they get pissed. In a reasonable world, dems would be able to explain exactly why some people may not qualify this time around and how it won't negatively impact people who actually need the money and that there was a phase out the first time around. In the real world, the republicans can just yell "Biden lied" and half the population will believe it and vote against us. Also I get the moderate frustration with progressives wanting to primary Sinema and Manchin but at the same time, now that nuking the filibuster isn't an option, progressives are seeing the very real possibility that most things that might actually help the poor and working class will likely die on the vine with Manchin and Sinema essentially having veto power. I get that democrats in red states are rare and have value but let's not pretend they're also not about to be a huge stumbling block and thorn in our side. We have to at least do something to put pressure on these guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 IsntLifeFunny, and Starkiller 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted March 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 IsntLifeFunny 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitansFan777 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 Example #37926382628366 why the Republican Party is the enemy of America and must be destroyed in 2022, 2024, 2026, and beyond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 tgo, IsntLifeFunny, and Starkiller 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, Titans279 said: you are so easily triggered.... Of course Biden's public stance on the filibuster remains unchanged. unlike you and many others he understands the middle is needed to win elections. His stance won't change until this congress proves its blocking legislations (which it undoubtedly will) which in turn will put pressure on Manchin and Sinema. The bottom line is the votes aren't there to eliminate the filibuster this cycle and you better just come to grips with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 52 minutes ago, tgo said: Johnson is a piece of shit, no other way to say it. tgo, IsntLifeFunny, Starkiller, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted March 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, oldschool said: Johnson is a piece of shit, no other way to say it. He's a bottom 3 senator. Hawley, Cruz, Johnson are the absolute worst of the worst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 19 minutes ago, oldschool said: you are so easily triggered.... Of course Biden's public stance on the filibuster remains unchanged. unlike you and many others he understands the middle is needed to win elections. His stance won't change until this congress proves its blocking legislations (which it undoubtedly will) which in turn will put pressure on Manchin and Sinema. The bottom line is the votes aren't there to eliminate the filibuster this cycle and you better just come to grips with it. Side note: I don't care about the Biden tweet. Threaded tweets always embed on this site with the parent tweet attached so it had to be included. It seems to me that Manchin and Sinema seem extremely unlikely to ever support removing the filibuster given their repeated and escalating criticism of doing so. Sinema's take on these issues is worth knowing imo. She actually disagrees with you because she thinks the filibuster blocks legislation that would be worse than legislation that would pass with 60 votes. She'll thus never support removing it because she thinks more conservative bills are better. Finally, I don't see how my posting a tweet is me being triggered. If anything I think you get triggered by my posts! Mythos27 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 Contrast Manchin and Sinema with this from Klobuchar. Not sure why we should just stop discussing the filibuster. Seems like it'll be a live issue. tgo, IsntLifeFunny, WG53, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool Posted March 3, 2021 Report Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Titans279 said: Side note: I don't care about the Biden tweet. Threaded tweets always embed on this site with the parent tweet attached so it had to be included. It seems to me that Manchin and Sinema seem extremely unlikely to ever support removing the filibuster given their repeated and escalating criticism of doing so. Sinema's take on these issues is worth knowing imo. She actually disagrees with you because she thinks the filibuster blocks legislation that would be worse than legislation that would pass with 60 votes. She'll thus never support removing it because she thinks more conservative bills are better. Finally, I don't see how my posting a tweet is me being triggered. If anything I think you get triggered by my posts! Again we agree on the filibuster needing to go and sinema is flat out wrong in her justification for keeping it. The point is you will likely never get these two to vote for it so dems needs to focus on getting 53 seats in 2022 and you do that by passing bills sinema and Manchin will support so the dems can get shit done. Biden isn't going to move left on this issue because he knows the dems need moderates and suburban voters to maintain control in 2022. A fact progressives seems to either ignore or not comprehend. He has to wait until the gop congress obstructs legislation like they will on immigration, voting rights, gun control, min wage, and infrastructure. Only then will he have the political capital to move left. The focus right now is on getting the covid relief bill passed because if he doesn't, his presidency is dead on arrival. Edited March 3, 2021 by oldschool tgo, IsntLifeFunny, and ChemEngr79 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titans279 Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Starkiller Posted March 4, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 oldschool, ChesterCopperpot1, Mythos27, and 5 others 4 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.