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abc2330

After Rewatching the Eagles Game....

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Mythos27   
2 minutes ago, Justafan said:

What they want to do with Henry and Lewis really matters here too.

I would imagine that given not only performance but also age, that we're better off prioritizing Henry's needs over Lewis which means more zone blocking. My preference is to blow the whole damn interior OL up but I'll settle for a change at center and maybe one of the 2 guard spots.

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Justafan   
Just now, Mythos27 said:

I would imagine that given not only performance but also age, that we're better off prioritizing Henry's needs over Lewis which means more zone blocking. My preference is to blow the whole damn interior OL up but I'll settle for a change at center and maybe one of the 2 guard spots.

Given Kline's contract and Jrob's prioritization of consistency on the line, I believe that is about the best you can hope for. 

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Soxcat   
1 hour ago, Mythos27 said:

I would imagine that given not only performance but also age, that we're better off prioritizing Henry's needs over Lewis which means more zone blocking. My preference is to blow the whole damn interior OL up but I'll settle for a change at center and maybe one of the 2 guard spots.

Jones might be the best of the three interior guys not to mention he makes the calls.  

Yes, the interior OL had issues early in the year and Conklin was not pulling his weight coming off injury.  Kline had a real poor year.  Spain was average and maybe not a perfect fit. 

 

But consider the mindless perspective here.  Henry, behind that same line (minus Conklin later) exploded.  That same crap line opened up some holes.  Does Henry need to average 6.0 YPC to be satisfied?  Have we forgotten our best TE didn't play all year because of injury and Walker is a key guy blocking on the edge.  I'm all for finding a potential starting OG (FA or draft) and letting Kline, Spain and whoever battle it out.  I'm more concerned about a #2 WR, Walker and Smith returning and maybe finding a 3rd RB to be the replacement for Lewis down the road. 

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abc2330   
1 hour ago, Justafan said:

You can get away with two below average guards if you have a good center.  Problem is, they don't.  

 

I think Spain is likely gone either way but Kline and Jones really depends on what they want to do.  Unfortunately, Kline is probably here no matter what so if I'm Jrob, I'm taking a close look at what Kline, Conklin, and Lewan do well because they are the most likely to be here for the next several years and I'm building my blocking scheme around that.

 

Then I find the best Center I can to execute that scheme and move Jones to Guard or if we think Jones will do great in that scheme maybe we leave him there and find a dominant G early in the draft to help solidify the middle.  

 

Lots of things they can do here but it's really hard to make predictions when we don't even know what system they will run and who will be the OC.

 

Also, Jones, Spain and Kline get too much hate around here.  They are all three slightly below average but they aren't horrible.  The problem is you can't have all 3 guys be below average athleticism in a zone blocking scheme and you can't have all three not have very good size in a power man blocking scheme.  Even if you mix the systems they aren't big enough or fast enough to really execute.

 

At LEAST one of those guys has to be much bigger or more athletic.  

The line didn't suck in 17, defenses just realized that our QB was not good if he was forced to throw.  So they took away the run.

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Justafan   
4 hours ago, abc2330 said:

The line didn't suck in 17, defenses just realized that our QB was not good if he was forced to throw.  So they took away the run.

That's oversimplifying things dramatically.  Trying to tie everything to the QB spot and absolving the Oline of blame is lazy and wrong.

 

If they were so good, then why wasn't the run blocking better?  If they were so good then why didn't the production go up when other QBs were under center?  If they were so good then why did they give up so many sacks this year?  Some of that is on the QB but many of these sacks, guys got beat clean.  Many of these runs, Henry and Lewis simply had no chance because the blocking was so bad.  

 

 

Edited by Justafan

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Mythos27   
1 hour ago, Soxcat said:

Jones might be the best of the three interior guys not to mention he makes the calls.  

Yes, the interior OL had issues early in the year and Conklin was not pulling his weight coming off injury.  Kline had a real poor year.  Spain was average and maybe not a perfect fit. 

 

But consider the mindless perspective here.  Henry, behind that same line (minus Conklin later) exploded.  That same crap line opened up some holes.  Does Henry need to average 6.0 YPC to be satisfied?  Have we forgotten our best TE didn't play all year because of injury and Walker is a key guy blocking on the edge.  I'm all for finding a potential starting OG (FA or draft) and letting Kline, Spain and whoever battle it out.  I'm more concerned about a #2 WR, Walker and Smith returning and maybe finding a 3rd RB to be the replacement for Lewis down the road. 

I'm not denying that the unit played well for a 4 week stretch. What I am saying is that the 4 week stretch of good play doesn't come close to negating a year's + worth of bad play and that I don't trust them to sustain the good play we saw last year. I don't trust them and don't want to rely on them next season if it can at all be helped.  

Edited by Mythos27

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6 hours ago, titanruss said:

The sack rate looked good because we were running the ball so well. Had very little to do with the oline.  When we were in 3rd and long and not ahead .. it looked bad. 

 

It it should also be noted the teams we played were pretty shit there at the end. 

 

I never saw dominance once from our oline. 

^This

Henry emerged as the perimeter blocking improved with better TE play.  They were having success on the outside and defenses sacrificed interior pressure to make sure they had the outside covered.  DCs saw what Henry did to JAX and NYG, and were scheming to stop that.

Having a strong running game, especially on the outside, will always cause defenses to pause.  When the run game sucked they were pinning their ears back and coming on the pass and run blitzes by blowing up the middle.

It's not like the Titans' O-Line suddenly became the Colts' O-Line.  The game plans the Titans came up with and the success of improved perimeter blocking and the resulting running game were the key(s).

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6 hours ago, Justafan said:

Also, Jones, Spain and Kline get too much hate around here.  They are all three slightly below average but they aren't horrible.  The problem is you can't have all 3 guys be below average athleticism in a zone blocking scheme and you can't have all three not have very good size in a power man blocking scheme.  Even if you mix the systems they aren't big enough or fast enough to really execute.

 

At LEAST one of those guys has to be much bigger or more athletic.  

In pass blocking Kline looked pretty freaking horrible.  Between stepping on Conk's or Jones' feet, or landing on his ass, or just playing turnstile, he was a liability for the vast majority of the season.

But he pulls decent in the run game.

But in Pass Pro he looked a lot like Andy Levitre circa 2015 out there, being pushed back into Marcus' lap or landing on his butt.

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Justafan   
18 minutes ago, TitanDuckFan said:

In pass blocking Kline looked pretty freaking horrible.  Between stepping on Conk's or Jones' feet, or landing on his ass, or just playing turnstile, he was a liability for the vast majority of the season.

But he pulls decent in the run game.

But in Pass Pro he looked a lot like Andy Levitre circa 2015 out there, being pushed back into Marcus' lap or landing on his butt.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but it doesn't matter.  His contract means he's likely here another year so the question isn't what is Kline, but rather what can you do to improve the line assuming that Kline, Conklin, and Lewan are going to be your guys next year.

Edited by Justafan

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8 minutes ago, Justafan said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you but it doesn't matter.  His contract means he's likely here another year so the question isn't what is Kline, but rather what can you do to improve the line assuming that Kline, Conklin, and Lewan are going to be your guys next year.

Find someone better than Keith Carter?

LOL

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Justafan   
Just now, TitanDuckFan said:

Find someone better than Keith Carter?

LOL

I would be all for that but I don't think that is going to happen unless they bring in an OC who wants to make big changes to the system and demands to bring in some of his own staff. 

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6 minutes ago, Justafan said:

I would be all for that but I don't think that is going to happen unless they bring in an OC who wants to make big changes to the system and demands to bring in some of his own staff. 

It may not happen even then.  I dunno how JRob and Vrabel think about the guy.

It's like Whis and Bostad.  All Whis had to do to keep his job was fire Bostad and he wouldn't/didn't do it.

For whatever reason.  But he should have done something to show AAS he didn't want Marcus killed in the BF.

That should have started with replacing the O-Line coach, and shooting Jeremiah Poutasi in the face.

JMHO

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Justafan   
1 minute ago, TitanDuckFan said:

It may not happen even then.  I dunno how JRob and Vrabel think about the guy.

It's like Whis and Bostad.  All Whis had to do to keep his job was fire Bostad and he wouldn't/didn't do it.

For whatever reason.  But he should have done something to show AAS he didn't want Marcus killed in the BF.

That should have started with replacing the O-Line coach, and shooting Jeremiah Poutasi in the face.

JMHO

Yea, that Oline and stubbornness were absolutely unforgivable.  I liked Whiz's system and if he had been willing to adapt, he might still be the coach here.  He had some really good coaches on that staff but it doesn't matter when you're doing everything you can to get the QB killed. 

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