Cyrus Posted July 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, reo said: I think that's partly where you're losing people. The left or progressives typically an accumulation of experts in different fields. You want economics then look at the leading economists. You want climate change then look at the leading climate scientists. If you want some left political specialist or something, that's not typically how it works but I could be wrong. Well that leads to very technocratic government but not a justification for any of the values or principles. More how then why. I’m looking for a coherent articulated why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamlngEnvy Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Holy fuck I understand nothing here lol Justafan, Mythos27, reo, and 1 other 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted July 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Bink said: Got it. I stand by my suggestion of Chomsky. Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald. I tend to read the more charged stuff. I think for each of those three large buckets you've listed you'll probably want to split off. Lots of books about the economy and how the politics of the 80s and 90s (Ronald and Bill) robbed the poor to pay the rich. Familiar with Chomsky, but will check out the rest...! Thanks for the suggestions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleNinja Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Cyrus said: Let's be serious please. David Axelrod is a thoughtful and very decent person. I am thoroughly incapable of being serious. And I'm dead serious about that. Justafan, and MamlngEnvy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titaninpgh Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Herbert Marcuse, David Graeber, Slavoj Zizek are leftist icons and prone to heavy critique on the left LOL at calling jordan fucking peterson a progressive thinker reo, and Justafan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reo Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Cyrus said: Well that leads to very technocratic government but not a justification for any of the values or principles. More how then why. I’m looking for a coherent articulated why. I'm not sure which values or principles we're talking. I'm more talking about political stances on various socio-economic or scientific issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bink Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 41 minutes ago, titaninpgh said: Herbert Marcuse, David Graeber, Slavoj Zizek are leftist icons and prone to heavy critique on the left LOL at calling jordan fucking peterson a progressive thinker Graeber, good pull. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Only since a bit surprised he hasn't already been thrown out since he's got a bit of YouTube pop about him.... Steven Pinker. Planning on reading his latest book Enlightenment Now (follows up patterns from The Better Angels of Our Nature, basically - we think life is getting worse when actually it's been getting better and better for centuries). Just not there yet. Granted, he's not extreme leftist - more rational pragmatist than crusader to a cause. (he and Chomsky have had their falling outs, and he is willing to call out extreme leftist behavior in academia and SJWs as overall negative to their core ideas in terms of hurting rather than helping their own agendas). And yes, he's an atheist. Though it's not his primary push. So although his media-facing side may end up closer to Tyson, he has generated legitimate work. And as far as I am concerned, right now we need more of both media-and mass public-friendly voices for science and thought, as well as more who can walk a more reasonable line. Polemicists like Hitchens are all well and good, but so often their best points get lost on whomever is in their crosshairs du jour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justafan Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Cyrus said: Psychologist more than a Philosopher or Political thinker (capital Ps). He did have an interview at the Aspen Institute which I've got loaded up now. So reading more, he's not not a "Progressive" thinker, but more of the ethno-right culture, no? Even if not, I don't generally consider psychologist masquerading as philosophers as "thinkers". He does a lot of interviews with progressive thinkers on his podcasts though. I like Michael Barinowski (probably misspelled that) from "The Politics Guys". Jay is a Republican lawyer and Michael is a political scientist. They go over the current political events with an emphasis on keeping is civil and trying not to demonize the other side. They have a libertarian come on there pretty regularly too. I've found that they are pretty decent if you're into that non crazy look at politics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Particularly the second half is pretty progressive http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) @Cyrus I just listened to Ben Rhodes' new audiobook if you're into that kind of thing (He was National Security advisor for Obama), and it was pretty good. It's mostly foreign policy based though. I listen to Sam Harris' podcast weekly but I know you said you don't care for him. Bill Maher's show on HBO every week is good too. But politically, neither Harris nor Maher are particularly nuanced about policy. Edited July 11, 2018 by tgo reo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted July 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 12 hours ago, Bink said: Graeber, good pull. Watching Graeber at a Google Talk on Debt right now. Has anyone read or listened to Joseph Stiglitz? (a recommended Google Talk). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bink Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, Cyrus said: Watching Graeber at a Google Talk on Debt right now. Has anyone read or listened to Joseph Stiglitz? (a recommended Google Talk). https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/dec/05/globalisation-time-look-at-past-plot-the-future-joseph-stiglitz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsntLifeFunny Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Ah on the OP I thought you meant philosophers for some reason. One guy I would check out is William Greider. I’ve read most of his books. He nailed the crash in 09, as well as he wrote the hallmark for understanding the Federal Reserve in Secrets of the Temple. This global realignment of relative economic power does not mean the United States must become weak or impoverished. On the contrary, once we recognize our changed position, it should free us from certain things. The burdens of neocolonialism—fighting half a dozen wars at once to discipline “lesser” nations—are very expensive. In fact, they have weakened us... The history of great nations in decline ought to be a cautionary tale for Americans. On their way down, declining powers have often squandered their assets on wasteful wars in vain attempts to deny the reality of new competition. One classic example is the British Empire, which sent its army to put down a colonial upstart in North America. Washington policy-makers would doubtless deny the neocolonial comparison, but we do seem to be following the same old script—using military force in an attempt to shape the economic playing field. What should Americans do? First, drop the nostalgic rhetoric of past glory and triumph. Instead, begin a serious analysis of our current situation, and future possibilities, and explore the options that are plausible and worth trying. Forget old political factions and labels. Ask the big questions and invite everyone to the table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos27 Posted July 11, 2018 Report Share Posted July 11, 2018 Chomsky is excellent. Never heard anyone so calmly articulate the ideals progressivism is rooted in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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