9 Nines Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, NashvilleNinja said: index funds and Apple don't have intrinsic value. Index funds and Apple, or any individual stock, is a full claim to ownership of that company's assets. After secure debt, and preferred shares, you get the remaining value of the company if it were to be liquidated and in the meantime you get a claim on its profit, which many companies pay out as dividends. You also have voting rights on major company policies, issues, to choose directors and other things. To say those things have no intrinsic value is cheerleading/cult speak and would be akin to saying owning a home has no intrinsic value. You can live in it, rent it etc. That might be easier to visualize than stock ownership directly owning a company, but it is not. Both a house and company are assets that are legal claims and are contractually defined. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are the things that have none of that. They pay no dividends. They are not claims to real assets. They have no par value. They have no claim to anything as they are not legal tender, if one uses the proper definition, where a creditor has to accept them as payment. Edited June 14, 2021 by 9 Nines OILERMAN, and pat 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, OILERMAN said: It's hilarious that the 3rd world countries say they'll use BTC as currency and it doesn't move BTC but Musk tweets he may accept BTC in the future and the price starts climbing! I do not know of any countries making bitcoin legal tender as the reports state. Legal tender would mean a creditor would have to accept bitcoin from a debtor offering it. The creditor would have no choice legally to refuse it. I cannot think of any country doing that. Also, to do it, debt would have to be priced in bitcoin, not another currency for which the bitcoin would be converted. In other words, such debt would not be XXXX US dollars/other world currencies; its terms would be XXXX bitcoins. That is not going to happen besides maybe some isolated hipsters doing it to get attention. Right now all these countries are saying is that a person is free to convert bitcoin into another currency then use that currency, not bitcoin, to buy things, or if the seller chooses, but not required to do so, wanted to accept the bitcoin without conversion. Although I am sure both parties would convert it on paper to another currency to price the item being sold because nothing of note is priced in bitcoin. Edited June 14, 2021 by 9 Nines OILERMAN 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, OILERMAN said: It's hilarious that the 3rd world countries say they'll use BTC as currency and it doesn't move BTC but Musk tweets he may accept BTC in the future and the price starts climbing! Thinking about it, its is doubtful that Tesla will ever accept bitcoin for its vehicles. Its just publicity speak. Sure it might take bitcoins converted at the time of sale into an established currency, but I highly doubt it will ever price its vehicles in bitcoin. And even in a converted exchange, it will probably not give full value, on current quote from exchanges. Instead, it will probably some discounted value, like 90% of the exchange value of the bitcoin, basically requiring more bitcoin than the current exchange value, otherwise it would be exposed to market risk until it can convert/properly store the bitcoin. Also, I doubt anyone with enough bitcoin to purchase a Tesla vehicle would pay bitcoin for a vehicle in the first place. Anyone with that much bitcoin would be a true believer likely and would not want to part with bitcoin. Its all a farce wand why it will never be a currency - catch 22. Edited June 14, 2021 by 9 Nines OILERMAN, and titanruss 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, NashvilleNinja said: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/bitcoin-intrinsic-value-definition "Clearly many people think bitcoin is valuable. They reveal this by exchanging things like their government-backed currencies for bitcoin. Some people think index funds and Apple stock are valuable. They reveal this by exchanging things such as government-backed currencies for index funds and Apple stock. But like bitcoin, index funds and Apple don't have intrinsic value. Rather, their value depends solely on what people are willing to pay for them, which is based on their features. In that respect, they're just like bitcoin! So, bitcoin -- like everything except happiness -- has no intrinsic value. Bitcoin’s value is determined by how it brings about happiness for the people who use it. Just like pretty much everything else." That's complete nonsense. Just so we're clear. OILERMAN 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OILERMAN Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, 9 Nines said: Its all a farce. Exactly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Jamalisms said: That's complete nonsense. Just so we're clear. Bitcoiners are like guys jilted by their girlfriends. Afterwards, some of them get lucky enough to find a girl that will date them but that girl does measure up to the one that left them, and all they do on the date is taking about the one that left. If bitcoin was so great, it would be itself - no conversions, no comparisons, things would simply be priced in it, and people would spend it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 There are arguments for investing in crypto. Namely speculation and hope for growth through numbers but also a belief in the tech. Shit like that post paints the whole thing in belligerent ignorance. It's actively detrimental to credibility and growth. Just charlatan nonsense targeted at uninformed people. Granted, there are many uninformed people but it's an approach that has a ceiling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalisms Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Bitcoiners are often millennial, white and trending towards libertarian. But some of them sound as blind and dumb and brain washed by a charlatan as your average Trump supporter. Completely the same vibe. 9 Nines 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jamalisms said: Just charlatan nonsense targeted at uninformed people. Granted, there are many uninformed people but it's an approach that has a ceiling. I suspect there is more overlap among Qanon, Trump supporters and bitcoiners than not. Jamalisms, OILERMAN, and titanruss 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jamalisms said: Bitcoiners are often millennial, white and trending towards libertarian. I suspect the real pushers of it, when you measure by the amount of bitcoin they would individually, or as an entity, hold are criminal organizations, from crime families to drug cartels to despotic governments, who are attracted to it as a means to evade authorities in their transaction. Money laundering is expensive, and open to much risk from people knowing those facts about your finances to direct theft etc. Widely accepted cryptocurrency would be a big windfall to criminal enterprises. That is another catch-22 for cryptocurrencies. If any were to reach the critical mass of acceptance to where the lives of criminals were made easier, governments would go after cryptocurrencies on those grounds alone as it would be a noble reason to make cryptocurrencies illegal. Edited June 14, 2021 by 9 Nines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilerTitanHybrid Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, OILERMAN said: It's hilarious that the 3rd world countries say they'll use BTC as currency and it doesn't move BTC but Musk tweets he may accept BTC in the future and the price starts climbing! lol I know. Me and the tax guy I use laugh over Musk sometimes. He's like the crypto Market Maker. I don't trade BTC or anything like I do stocks, I am just throwing some cash at the pos and hoping it sticks. LOL I'm really just buying BTC on technical analysis here on the chart. I don't really read about it, follow it on Twitter (I still don't have Twitter), or even know that much about it. Just treating it like a speculation stock really. The chart looks decent enough here though, so just gonna load up the Vault and let it ride. If I lose the $25k, then dat's the way the balloon pops! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Nines Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 Thinking about the Trump/bitcoin overlap, I suspect Russia is involved to some degree in the bitcoin cheerleading. Putin would probably gain more than any single person if bitcoin became what is proponents think it can. Putin is possibly the richest man in the world, but if he crossed the line, the West would siege his money and/or prevent him from spending it in established markets, relegating him to having money only in a few corrupt, third world financial systems which would not just cramp his lifestyle but probably be the incentive for people under him to take him out. Putin, and other criminals like him, would be the most to gain if cryptocurrency were really as secure and no traceable as billed and became widely accepted. Also, the arguments for bitcoin are becoming synonymous in crazy irrelevant points just as the Russian propaganda support for Trump was/is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilerTitanHybrid Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 What really was the clincher that got me into buying some Bitcoin, was the Trump video last week, where Trump said he thought Bitcoin was a scam and he said he wasn't in the stock market now either. I said damn, if he isn't in the stock market and I am, then I feel good about that! lol And if he thinks Bitcoin is a scam, then I need to be buying some! titanruss, and OILERMAN 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 8 hours ago, OILERMAN said: It's hilarious that the 3rd world countries say they'll use BTC as currency and it doesn't move BTC but Musk tweets he may accept BTC in the future and the price starts climbing! You stupid idiot, news of that made it jump from 32k to 38k.. ~6k the must tweet made it jump about 3-4k OILERMAN 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanruss Posted June 14, 2021 Report Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 hours ago, 9 Nines said: Thinking about it, its is doubtful that Tesla will ever accept bitcoin for its vehicles. Its just publicity speak. Sure it might take bitcoins converted at the time of sale into an established currency, but I highly doubt it will ever price its vehicles in bitcoin. And even in a converted exchange, it will probably not give full value, on current quote from exchanges. Instead, it will probably some discounted value, like 90% of the exchange value of the bitcoin, basically requiring more bitcoin than the current exchange value, otherwise it would be exposed to market risk until it can convert/properly store the bitcoin. Also, I doubt anyone with enough bitcoin to purchase a Tesla vehicle would pay bitcoin for a vehicle in the first place. Anyone with that much bitcoin would be a true believer likely and would not want to part with bitcoin. Its all a farce wand why it will never be a currency - catch 22. They already have to in el salvidore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.